Just Curious if anyone else is angry over this?

just wanted to say, as a non-american, that although i was against starting the war in iraq in the first place, i DO believe you (general you) should finish what you started. to start a war (wrongly so IMHO, but that's another discussion), make a big mess and then just leave. big NONO...

that was all. carry on....

Cassidys Mom

snownose

ron2

Well, you know he caused Hurricane Katrina, right?

 

But, of course.......:)

Hey, whatever happened to the accusation of us going to Iraq for the oil......lol.....hello, I am waiting for someone to turn on that supply......lol.....

No, no, no! It's not to get cheap oil for US, the poor sap consumes! Get the story straight - it's so American corporations can control Iraq's oil, ensuring a steady supply and even steadier profits! And BTW, have you taken a look at oil profits lately?

Dear, dear.... you must get the story straight.....the oil companies are running with an 8.1% profit.....that is on the average and percentage wise very low....it's the volume they are selling that makes it look big.......most people don't have a big enough clue whan it comes to economics.....do some research, most companies run a way bigger profit margin than just 8 lousy %........the government is taking a much bigger chunk .....and what exactly does the government do to bring fuel to you?

sillysally

It should tell you something that conservative talk show hosts and talking heads from Anne Coulter to Rush were screeeaaammmming when McCain came out on top.  If he *truly* is "just like Bush," then don't you think these people would adore him, since Bush was pretty much the darling of conservative talk radio?  There is a lot of icky feelings for McCain on the GOP side of things based on the fact that he's not ENOUGH like Bush, not the other way around....

That's a fact, jack.......the conservatives are not liking the GOP candidate.......

Hey, Obama supportes really need to take a look at his flip flop statements about many things, especially the withdrawal of troops......this guy scares me, he will say anything to get votes......he stands for absolutely nothing except for raising taxes, and we know where that will end up.....a fast and sure way of shutting down an economy.......example Michigan.......

snownose

Cassidys Mom

snownose

No, no, no! It's not to get cheap oil for US, the poor sap consumes! Get the story straight - it's so American corporations can control Iraq's oil, ensuring a steady supply and even steadier profits! And BTW, have you taken a look at oil profits lately?

Dear, dear.... you must get the story straight.....the oil companies are running with an 8.1% profit.....that is on the average and percentage wise very low....it's the volume they are selling that makes it look big.......most people don't have a big enough clue whan it comes to economics.....do some research, most companies run a way bigger profit margin than just 8 lousy %........the government is taking a much bigger chunk .....and what exactly does the government do to bring fuel to you?

Snownose, you hit the nail on the head.  The government makes more money in taxes off a gallon of gas than do the oil companies.  And they don't have to lift a finger to reap those rewards.  doG bless you for finally pointing out the idea of a profit margin!  I swear, this is one of the few times I have heard someone mention this very important point, so kudos to you!!  I don't know much about economics, but this is a pretty easy concept to grasp, so it blows my mind more people don't understand it (and, why the oil companies don't point this out more!).  And BTW, the largest oil companies (the "Big 5";) control 5% of the world's oil supply.  5 percent!  The rest they have to buy from OPEC countries, so there's no water in the argument that they are trying to control the price of gas.  Ooh, I just heard Bush's speech about ending the moratorium on off-shore drilling.  I thought it was awesome!!  Idiot my big bootie!  That was a great speech.

On the upcoming election...I think Obama will be our next president (I will not be voting for him).  And at that point he is sworn in, don't say I didn't warn you...BOHICA!

janetmichel3009

just wanted to say, as a non-american, that although i was against starting the war in iraq in the first place, i DO believe you (general you) should finish what you started. to start a war (wrongly so IMHO, but that's another discussion), make a big mess and then just leave. big NONO...

that was all. carry on....

IMO, just because you started something you shouldn't have, you can't use that as an excuse to continue making a bad situation worse. Sort of like "Gee, I guess I shouldn't have pulled that little string on the carpet.  But now that I have, instead of cutting it I'll just continue pulling it until there's no carpet left." Bush should have the cojones to admit he was wrong, pick up his toys and GO HOME, provide whatever financial aid is necessary to rebuild (which will be a lot less than continuing the war), get the Army Corps of Engineers in there to supervise, and get whatever help he can from the UN to help clean up his mess.

Joyce

well, it's just that i think that at this point things would be worse if the troops pulled out... maybe that's just me though... IF you are right, and retracting the troops and just concentrating on aid worked, then yes, i agree... but as it is now... i dunno...

 Since we're sort of OT anyway and talking about withdrawing... I'm curious (and, as a youngish person, not of an age to have first-hand knowledge)...

Do you guys think that the US withdrawing from Korea and/or Vietnam was the right move? Did it ultimately hurt or help those countries, and/or the US? Essentially, should we do it again, or not?

As the US already has a history of getting involved in wars in other countries and then pulling out even when the "mission" is rather clearly not "accomplished," what is different about this current war, and what can we learn from our past actions? What concrete facts could we look to in order to see if Iraq was "ready" for us to withdraw?

Personally, I feel that there are very very few people qualified to say whether we should withdraw or not. I wish those "in the know" and on the ground, with a real grasp on the current atmosphere and situation in Iraq, had more of a public voice. I don't think any of us safely here in the States, or even most of the rank-and-file deployed overseas, most likely, is in a position to have any idea whatsoever what's happening on a geo-political level in the area.

I don't think McCain can know. I don't think Obama can know. And I certainly don't think Bush can know (although he's in the best position, if he chooses to abandon his own agenda and really listen). I just hope whoever comes out on top in November is wise enough to really listen, open-mindedly, to the right people to come up with a solution. If that means McCain pulling out of Iraq immediately or Obama committing to another 20 years of military presence, I hope they can be brave enough to set aside their personal agendas to really take an objective look at the situation. 

fuzzy_dogs_mom

janetmichel3009

just wanted to say, as a non-american, that although i was against starting the war in iraq in the first place, i DO believe you (general you) should finish what you started. to start a war (wrongly so IMHO, but that's another discussion), make a big mess and then just leave. big NONO...

that was all. carry on....

IMO, just because you started something you shouldn't have, you can't use that as an excuse to continue making a bad situation worse. Sort of like "Gee, I guess I shouldn't have pulled that little string on the carpet.  But now that I have, instead of cutting it I'll just continue pulling it until there's no carpet left." Bush should have the cojones to admit he was wrong, pick up his toys and GO HOME, provide whatever financial aid is necessary to rebuild (which will be a lot less than continuing the war), get the Army Corps of Engineers in there to supervise, and get whatever help he can from the UN to help clean up his mess.

Joyce

Sure, let's send in a bunch of civilians to handle the insurgency.  Great idea!  We have to curb the violence first, then we can send more people in to upcharge the rebuilding, which, by the way, is already occurring, but will be sped up once security is in place and people can go in and perform more rebuilding without fear of being captured and beheaded.

The UN?  The UN doesn't do anything.  They enacted sanctions against Iraq and never enforced them.  And they are extremely corrupt.  Oil for Food, anyone?

aerial1313

The UN?  The UN doesn't do anything.  They enacted sanctions against Iraq and never enforced them.  And they are extremely corrupt.  Oil for Food, anyone?

LOL....right....the UN, one of the most corrupt organization.....before pulling the troops we should be pulling our money from that corrupt and worthless bunch of idiots......

Also, the middle east needs to be stabilized....ever heard of strategic military bases?

Post Vietnam:

It is hard to tell if withdrawing from Vietnam made things worse or better. It was pretty much a given that the US had no hope in h@ll of winning that war if they stayed. So from the US perspective withdrawing did save American lives but failed to stop the spread of communism. However this is the short version of what happened after they left. 

South Vietnamese officials (hundreds of thousands) were imprisoned after the communist take over. Tens of thousands died and many fled the country after being released. Chinese minority was repressed by the communists and over 2 million civilians fled the country. They became known as the "boat people" of which half died at sea. The Socialist Republic of Vietnam was formed a year later and ultimately invaded Cambodia. One of the most devastating effects of the war was the use of Agent Orange used to defoliate the combat zones and the use of chemicals to destroy the rice fields. These chemicals destroyed approx. 1/3 of South Vietnam land (3.8 million acres). As of 2006, the gov't estimated over 4,000,000 victims of dioxin poisoning and in some areas the dioxin level is still 100x the acceptable level.

chelsea_b

Oh please!! If we've "survived" 8 years of Bush, I think we can handle 4 of Obama.

I would rather have 4 more years of Bush than a term with Obama.

snownose

..

Also, the middle east needs to be stabilized....ever heard of strategic military bases?

And why is it our responsibility to run around the world stabilizing everyone else? Oh wait!  I know!  It's because we've done such a grand job solving all our own problems.

Joyce

fuzzy_dogs_mom

And why is it our responsibility to run around the world stabilizing everyone else? Oh wait!  I know!  It's because we've done such a grand job solving all our own problems.

Please, I know you are smarter than that.........

True.  I'm smart  enough to realize we need to take care of our own problems and keep our noses out the rest of the worlds business. This constant need to butt in to every other country's business I'm sure has gone a long way to making us so loved around the world. Every other country does NOT want to do everything OUR WAY and we shouldn't be suggesting that they should.

Joyce

fuzzy_dogs_mom

True.  I'm smart  enough to realize we need to take care of our own problems and keep our noses out the rest of the worlds business. This constant need to butt in to every other country's business I'm sure has gone a long way to making us so loved around the world. Every other country does NOT want to do everything OUR WAY and we shouldn't be suggesting that they should.

Joyce

Then you must be able to foretell how trading markets and trading goods work in the future as they always have......I am really glad that you think that we could survive by leaving all that behind.........just wondering.....is your transportation a non fueled vehicle????