Just Curious if anyone else is angry over this?

dgriego

wants the war to fail in order to prove that Bush is an idiot.

This war is a failure. It has been since its inception. And I certainly don't need the war to fail to prove that Bush is an idiot. 

dgriego

But our troops are not a bunch of crazed monsters raping and pilligaing and tossing puppies off cliffs. Those are the minority and they are dealt with and those exist everywhere in life, I am sure that most of you have met a few or at the least heard of them.

I didn't say or imply any such thing. But some of them are. And I don't buy the excuse that they were like that when they went. That's something you can tell yourself, but I don't believe it. My brother was perfectly sane when he went into war (another war like Iraq) with a promising future. All he ever said to me about it was, "I killed babies". That's ALL I ever heard about his experiences. Can you imagine the tales these guys will have when they get back? Can you imagine coming back into the "real world" and realizing how much pain and death you've caused innocent people? Can you imagine lying in bed at night and realizing what kind of cruel monster throws a hand grenade at a flock of sheep or thows a tiny puppy off a cliff??? Can you imagine realizing that that monster is yourself?

I can't imagine what that would do my a person's psyche.  

An army study three years ago forecast an impending soldier-suicide crisis, but critics say it was largely ignored until more than 600 U.S. soldiers began being evacuated from Iraq for psychiatric reasons.

"I tried to blow my head off with my weapon and then one split second more and I would have succeeded," one soldier said. "I mean I had the gun to my head with the safety off, with the round chambered."

McNamara wanted to know, "What saved you?"

"They did, they took the weapon away from me," he answered. 

I'm not going to argue abut this stupid war. And I'm not going to read the propaganda either. I just hope we can get those men and women out of that insanity soon. And I'm doing my part to make sure it happens sooner, not 100 years from now.

FourIsCompany

I just wanted to make one more point here. I think it's pretty terrible that people went after chelsea like that. If anyone bashes the government or the war, they are attacked for not supporting the troops. 

I would really encourage you to actually read what I said in my post.  The way I read her post it did not sound like she was singling out only the government, it sounded like she was referring to everyone involved, including the troops over there.

She clarified that she was referring to the government and that's fine, I don't care about what people think of Bush.  What I do care about is my step brother and people like him, and the families that all of those guys leave behind.      

FourIsCompany

Bush is an idiot. 

 Well you are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours but at least we can agree on the above.

sillysally

What I do care about is my step brother and people like him, and the families that all of those guys leave behind.      

I don't think there's anyone that has ill thoughts towards the troops. All that "support the troops" stuff, as if liberals don't? That's just another thing Repubs like to say to raise hackles. My aunt, who is and always has been THE most anti-war person I know, protesting constantly, writing letters to anyone who'll listen, flying anti-war and anti-Bush flags everywhere, works in military hospitals (she was at Walter Reed, and now she's in Wiesbaden) HELPING the troops and their families. The REASON most people are anti-war is BECAUSE of the troops, because we want them home safe instead of over there dying. I'm sick of hearing Republicans say "Support the troops!" and then next second saying "We might need to be over there for 100 more years..." How is that supporting the troops?? I feel like the only way to support them is to want them to come home SOON and alive, but that's JMO...

Moderator checking in...

Haven't poked thru this entire thread, going so to do now. I am hoping it's going to remain about issues and not about the people posting...ETA: Just poked thru more and I have to say I am impressed. This is a tough subject...kudos to those making the effort to keep this interesting, and a debate rather than an arguement.

Cassidys Mom

I am VERY opposed to Bush, I think history will prove him one of the worst if not THE worst president the US has ever had, and the Iraq war the blunder of all blunders.

I am so amused to constantly hear how Bush is the idiot who went to war and will go down in history as  blah, blah, blah.......just shows me really how much attention everybody was paying to the voting members of the senate........argh.....now, everybody changed their opinion with the wind ......and guess who is holding the bag? It wasn't too long ago that our former president claimed that Hussein was a super dangerous individual.......do some research.......and quit spouting that liberal crap......

snownose

Cassidys Mom

I am VERY opposed to Bush, I think history will prove him one of the worst if not THE worst president the US has ever had, and the Iraq war the blunder of all blunders.

 

I am so amused to constantly hear how Bush is the idiot who went to war and will go down in history as  blah, blah, blah.......just shows me really how much attention everybody was paying to the voting members of the senate........argh.....now, everybody changed their opinion with the wind ......and guess who is holding the bag? It wasn't too long ago that our former president claimed that Hussein was a super dangerous individual.......do some research.......and quit spouting that liberal crap......

  Thanks for my first laugh on this thread!
 

Cassidys Mom

Thanks for my first laugh on this thread!

Not to worry, I have been laughing all along......next thing I will be hearing is how Bush bamboozled all of us and the senate.....well, if he was able to do all that then he must be a very smart cookie and the rest of us including the senate very stupid.......it is what it is......

snownose

Not to worry, I have been laughing all along......next thing I will be hearing is how Bush bamboozled all of us and the senate.....well, if he was able to do all that then he must be a very smart cookie and the rest of us including the senate very stupid

Well, you know he caused Hurricane Katrina, right?

He signed over fed asst. funds to La 2.5 days before the hurricane hit. And Katrina did not hit New Orleans, it went over Grand Isle and turned hard right towards Gulfport, Ms. A storm surge on the clean side hit levees on Lake Ponchartrain that hadn't been updated since 1954, when a hurricane actually did hit New Orleans. It's Bush's fault that the voters voted down a bond the year before to strengthen the levees. It's Bush's fault that in 150 years of the management of New Orleans, no one ever thought about putting the power for the city pump somewhere above seal level.

When the first Red Cross and La Natl guard trucks were positioned to enter New Orleans, Mayor Nagan and Gov Blanco said no, do not go in there, we don't want people trying to get into New Orleans for aid, we want to get them out. Evidently that was Bush's fault, too.

When we pull out of Iraq, it will fall back to the way it was. That's what the people understand, that's the kind of life they know. Otherwise, we will still be there as we are in Korea to this very day. And while Bush's family may own oil and he's getting some profit, he can't control OPEC. And if we're going to cuss the president, we need to make up our minds. Either he's a dimwit or he's a machivellian genius, Even if Guantanamo Bay got started with his idea for securing immediately suspected terrorists, he is not the only one involved. And there's too many other factors along the way that prevent him from being a dictatorship. But it's easier to blame the president. He's a visible target.

Cassidys Mom

I think history will prove him one of the worst if not THE worst president the US has ever had, and the Iraq war the blunder of all blunders.

I agree, history will not be kind to Bush. On the other hand, despite what we now know to be 'the facts' surrounding the decision to invade Iraq, had the invasion been successful and the "mission accomplished' speech indeed marked the beginning of the end to the war in May, 2005, I have no doubt that the American public would today be hailig Bush as a great president. 

snownose

 

 
and guess who is holding the bag? 

The buck has to stop somewhere. Bush pushed for the war despite international opposition, so I believe it is his 'bag' to hold. 

ron2

When we pull out of Iraq, it will fall back to the way it was.

will it fall back to what it was or will it be something worse?

ron2

Well, you know he caused Hurricane Katrina, right?

But, of course.......:)

Hey, whatever happened to the accusation of us going to Iraq for the oil......lol.....hello, I am waiting for someone to turn on that supply......lol.....

snownose

Hey, whatever happened to the accusation of us going to Iraq for the oil......lol.....hello, I am waiting for someone to turn on that supply......lol.....

No kidding, lol!  Our own military on the ground in Iraq has no access to the Iraqi oil supply, much less bringing it across the pond. 

But alas, as you and Ron have pointed out, everything wrong with the world is Bush's fault.  If I stub my toe, it's Bush's fault.  If my car won't start, it's Bush's fault.  And we haven't had a terrorist attack in this country in almost 7 years...that is one thing I will gladly say is Bush's fault!!!!

I understand lots of people don't like him, and hey, that's cool.  But I just don't understand the disrespectful rhetoric that people spew about a sitting president (any sitting president, no matter what side of the aisle they come from).  Sure he's done a lot of things wrong, and I disagree with some of the stuff he has done.  But I don't fault the man for placing the security of this country and its people as his number one priority. 

And I certainly don't think that the men and women fighting in Iraq right now are in it to lose.  I heard a soldier (on leave) call into a radio show a while back, and this man was pleading with the American people, the media, and the Congress to please, for the love of doG, to let him do his job.  It moved me to tears, and really put into perspective what our brave folks over there are feeling.  They wouldn't put their lives on the line to pack up and leave without winning.  It scares me for the people of Iraq what would happen should we leave without making sure we'd done everything we could to ensure their security.  And I believe the commanders on the ground certainly know better how to handle this war than do the blowhards in congress.  Mismanagement in the past, sure, but no one could have predicted the level of the insurgency that has arisen after the fall of Saddam's regime.  Now we have a great commander in charge, we have made unbelievable progress, and things I think will continue to improve, as long as we don't give up.  And remember folks, there's nothing Al Qaeda would love more than for America to fail.  Just something to keep in mind.

ron2

 Either he's a dimwit or he's a machivellian genius,

*raises hand*  My vote is for dimwit.

Joyce

fuzzy_dogs_mom

*raises hand*  My vote is for dimwit.

Agreed. I don't think Bush is a malicious evil guy, but I think he's way too stupid to be president, and has made mistake after horrible mistake. I don't hate Bush as a person, I think he'd be a great neighbor, or a fun uncle (heck, he often reminds me of my dad when I was little), but I HATE him as president. I don't think he should be in control of a car (although I think that about most people..I think driving tests should have IQ tests built in, and if you get under, say..95, you fail! lol), let alone a country as powerful as the US.

I do however think most of his administration is evil. Bushy's just their puppet.