Three weeks later

dyan

A couple of nights ago I put a tee shirt in of mine for him to sleep with.  Of course when he pee'd on it..I took it out to wash it.

That's why I suggested putting the scent item in a mesh laundry bag suspended from the side of the crate.

dyan

Do you think that something to keep him warm is what he needs?  

He may not actually be cold, but having something warm to put his head against would be like cuddling with a littermate.  The disk could be balanced on edge against the side of the crate, so he wouldn't be forced to lay on it.

dyan

he has been away from the litter for over 3 weeks, could something like that still be his problem? 

He may not need the heartbeat, but it may help keep him relaxed enough to sleep better.

The heartbeat is a calming sound to young pups - it should help him relax, at least. Even though he's been away from his litter for a while, he's still in a strange place all alone. I would try the clock or bear - it's def. worth a shot at least!

Have you tried giving him his meals in kongs? I think that will help tire him out, mentally, much more.

erica1989

Have you tried giving him his meals in kongs? I think that will help tire him out, mentally, much more.

No... I have not. I have put a little PB in a kong.... but usually its still in there when we get home. He eats what he doesnt' have to work hard to get to....    I try to feed him a few hours before we go anywhere so he has a chance to dump it before we leave.   Wonder if I should try that when we leave him on Friday for golf. THAT is the longest he has ever been in the crate when we are not home...about 5 hours.. I feed him about 1 and then when we get home, around 9.

It would probably keep him busy, Dyan.  But, you are probably going to come home to a mess no matter what you do.  Is there anyone who could check in on him while you are gone Friday.  Too bad you weren't closer to me!!

erica1989

disagree. Pups can not hold it forever, and they sure aren't going to sleep through the entire night - just like a human baby. I've had quite a few pups, and most seem to 'have to go' at the dreaded 3 o'clock hour.

Never had a pup...even a small Beagle..need to go out before 5-6am when put to bed at 11pm or so more than a week or so in. Giant dogs...have giant bladders...Cleo held her pee the entire flight from Washington to Texas with a 2 hour layover...7-8 hours. She would not pee at the airport either so tack on another 1 hours home...once in the yard and off lead...she pee'd for days.

But she did not wake up to pee for longer than the first week. If they know you will get up then they will make a racket.

I do not get up til they are QUIET...even for a single second. That door does not open until they are quiet. I stretch the time I will even entertain letting them out by 10 minutes..then longer...eventually they don't even bother. I hear them playing with a toy or something in there...but they wait to pee til I get up at 5-6am and we go out then.

ETA: the same method is used for infants/young toddlers during the evening. You let them cry a bit longer each time and eventually they stop expecting someone to pop in whenever they holler...and they learn to calm themselves and fall asleep. I have two wonderful stay in bed all night sleepers thanks to this method.

rwbeagles

Never had a pup...even a small Beagle..need to go out before 5-6am when put to bed at 11pm or so more than a week or so in. Giant dogs...have giant bladders.

Well at least I wasn't completely off base Bugsy at 12 wks (best guess) easily went 8hrs+.  That is my only experience but my friend's GR and my other friend who has labs both didn't get up in the middle of the night from 8 wks.

Dyan hearing you say he is starving hungry but won't work the kong for PB makes me think it would be a very good idea to feed him from his kong.  I think its important that he learns what your expectations are not so much that you learn his   It sounds like he is getting what he wants pretty much when he wants - even this young - call me a shrew I think NILIF would be a good idea.  Remember this is a giant breed that will be hard to manage if he gets it in his head that he is the ruler.  You know at least as well as I do that many, many danes get dumped at 8-10 mos old because they are 'pushy'.  I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU WOULD DO THIS! Just saying that it can be a breed attribute.  One that I believe my mix inherited, for better or worse

As the others have said I wouldn't let him out when he is noisy - easier to say when you are not listening to it but I know you can do it.  Not sure about messing in the crate - I wouldn't have puppy pads in there and I would have the divider in so that he has less room to have a toilet and bed.  And I would start feeding some from the kongs.

Now Gibson you have been adopted by this super duper family and they are giving you a wonderful home - I know you can do it big guy, outside is where you do your business!  And shhhhhhhh the humans are sleeping!

Be strong Dyan it will click! 

kpwlee

You know at least as well as I do that many, many danes get dumped at 8-10 mos old because they are 'pushy'.  I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU WOULD DO THIS! Just saying that it can be a breed attribute.  One that I believe my mix inherited, for better or worse

As the others have said I wouldn't let him out when he is noisy - easier to say when you are not listening to it but I know you can do it.  Not sure about messing in the crate - I wouldn't have puppy pads in there and I would have the divider in so that he has less room to have a toilet and bed.  And I would start feeding some from the kongs.

Yes,,, I know that Danes are pushy... you wouldnt' have believed Bubblegum! Holy Toledo...but Ollie was just a sweetie.  I sure used NILF on Bubby...had to keep going back to it also.   
Yesterday I fed him from his kong...dry kibble. I was only gone about 45 minutes.... got home and he had food on the floor...food on the other side of the divider..probably killing him that he could just see it but not reach it.   Everything else was gone. However...the kong held less than half of what he eats.   

As far as not going in there until he stops...Ha!  Wait I have to go to work.... he wakes up crying and howling about 3, then does the same thing after I take him out until he falls asleep. This morning he pretty much did it after the 3 outing..until I had to get up to get ready for work. There is nothing I can do about that.  

I did by him one of the heartbeat things...bet you two bits to a dollar... he chews it up....even though he hasn't done that to anything else.

Doing research..read in several places about how long a dog can hold it..... I hour per month. He is 2 1/2 months..should be able to hold it 2 1/2 hours.    He does. A fellow at work yesteday said that is true of his baby German Shepherd.  

I have to say somthing though...I might have been being very stupid..... because now I'm thinking he isn't peeing soo much as just getting everything wet because of barking and all. Slobber perhaps.  I kept trying to smell it to see if its urine because its so hard to believe he had been out and still pee'd but I couldn't tell..... he is a baby...so I'm not sure how strong his urine is.

Tonight is DHs birthday...we are meeting our kids for dinner at 7.... I will put the heart thing in....and a kong with food.....and God knows what else.     He shouldn't be able to bark very much...he barked almost non stop from almost 3 AM until 5...DH said he is horse.  

Oh Dyan I feel so sorry for you, DH & Gibson 

I'm glad he worked the kong and yes I know it doesn't hold enough but it still is good for him and it's not a big deal that he couldn't get some of the pieces. You can always wet the kibble stuff it in there and then freeze it for longer entertainment and less likelihood of kibble flying around

I have nothing to offer about his crying in the crate and going out.  My experience is the same as Gina's with Cleo in that Bugs had no problem holding his urine for 7-8 hrs at the age of three months.  Same for my friend's golden and my other friends several labs.  I think that large/giant breeds have much larger bladders than small breeds and that the training is more about holding it and going appropriately.  It is only my opinion but I wouldn't let him out at 3 - iirc you've had him nearly a month so he is pretty close to 3 months old, no?

I know that seems mean and seriously it is only my opinion nothing else, but the fact that he is crying after he goes out to me sounds like he just wants out of his crate.  he sounds incredibly obstinate in that I believe he thinks making a ruckus will free him and he is willing to go at it for hours at a time.

Good thing he is so cute ay?  

I really feel for you and DH - I am sending Gibson some vibes to settle down!  I'm sure he is going to have an AHA moment and all will be fine

as for tonight - HAPPY BIRTHDAY DH! Go out and be guilt free!  I wouldn't leave that heart thing in there if you really think he might chew it. I would fear him eating bits - I have no idea what it looks like is made of or anything else just know my boy destroyed everything at that age.

Sorry I have no real tricks of the trade  

kpwlee

Good thing he is so cute ay?  

I really feel for you and DH - I am sending Gibson some vibes to settle down! 

Ha.....yeah, good thing he is so cute and thanks for the vibes but they haven't reached us quite yet!!! 

So, we filled the kong again with food before leaving for dinner.  Fed him the rest a couple hours later when we came home.  His kennel was soaked again..and I'm sure now its not pee....but slobber.   If you could hear the ruckus that he makes!  What bothers me the most is thinking that if he doesn't stop that before he gets much bigger....YIKES!    Our kids came over after dinner...we sat out on the deck and my son Mike kept playing with Gibby. He kept telling him "I'm not letting you fall asleep, I'm going to make sure your dead tired to sleep all night!" Ha! He was really tired but nothing changed..he got up at 3, went out both ways and came in and got back up at 5 to eat.   He is dead tired now though...I can tell you for sure.   I put the little heart thing in his crate last night...and he seemed to be kind of more quiet, didn't bark but for a few seconds after the 3 AM outing.  BUT he WAS really tired.

One day soon I will not let him up at 3,,,but I did'nt the first 2 weeks I had him and we were getting no where in housebreaking.   Yesterday I told DH,,,at least he hasn't gone in the house for at least a week,,,then...he got up and pee'd on the steps. Yes,,the steps. He was upstairs with us in the loft and was staring down at the bottom or the front door which is at the bottom...so I thought "I will run him out..he hasn't been out for a few hours and he drank a lot of water." What I didn't realize is that his back feet were on one step, front on another and he was peeing on the one in between....Couldn't believe it.  I guess in a puppys mind he is looking at the door thinking he has to go pee...and did!  HHHmmm!   Another lesson learned.    

Two things, Bubblegums breeders husband used to work with my son Ron.  When Mike ( Ollies dad ) and Ron lived together and were housebreaking Ollie,,, the husband used to tell Ron that Danes are really really hard to housebreak. And Gibsons breeder said several times "you know male great dane puppies are not too smart!"    HHHmmm,,,, don't know how true either statement is...but I do think of these statements all the time now.

dyan

His kennel was soaked again..and I'm sure now its not pee....but slobber.  

This is starting to sound like separation anxiety.

• http://www.wonderpuppy.net/canwehelp/dbfear.htm
• http://canines.com/library/sepanxiety.shtml
• http://www.wagntrain.com/SeparationAnx.htm
• http://www.cochranehumane.ca/html/resources/sepanx.htm
• http://www.foxterrier.com/info/sepanxiety.php
• http://www.greytdogs.com/problem.html
• http://www.pawschicago.org/PetCare/dogs_sa.htm
• http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/SeparationAnxiety.php
• http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/sa.htm

I sent you a few pm's but let me say here that I think it is great that you've got Gibson. And yeah, he's going to be a challenge but he's your kind of challenge. Keep up the good work. I'll answer my own question and look in the photo section to see if you post more pics than just the ones in the original "Gibson" thread.

janet_rose

This is starting to sound like separation anxiety.

that's what I am beginning to think as well - poor guy 

Thanks for the links Janet.   I have no doubt that is what it is.

Tonight our golf night got rained out...but we met to have dinner...was gone about 2 hours. We left about an hour before his dinner...but decided to wait it out so that he will have eaten later rather than earlier...maybe he'll sleep longer????    Ha!

Well,,, filled a kong with dry kibble...and put some snacks in another toy..with some cheese to hold it in.   Got home to a soaked crate ( I'm sure slobber...not pee ) and half of the kibble was still there and the snacks in the other toy were completely there.   He must have started barking right away...because he had to be  hungry.    I will read the links, perhaps there will be help in there someplace.

Ugh, Dyan, I can't believe you've got to go thru this!  What can be about separation anxiety in a puppy??? How do you tell the difference between that and he just doesn't like his crate? 

I really don't think it is seperation anxiety. I've dealt with a dog with SA, and his 'issues' don't match yours. Yours sound like very typical puppy things. I don't do litters of puppies, ever. I've always had singles - and MANY exhibite the same things as Gibson. You just have to be consistant. Puppies thrive on schedules.

Maybe he's not a crate dog, maybe he'd do better in an e-pen? I've had a few pups like that - issues ended with the e-pen. My SA dog did much better with more room, too.