Three weeks later

Oh Gibson don't drive your new mom and dad nuts!

Many more experienced than I will post but some initial thoughts;

may be only give him the treats after you close the door of the crate so he gets that not just going in means the treat but staying in. 

The hardest thing with Bugsy was figuring out his appetite - I think may be Gibson is really hungry.  Everyone told me that when we went to 2x a day feeding to do like when we got up and 5 pm or so.  I struggled to keep him sane until 5  - I used to call him devil dog.  Then I started to feed him slightly earlier and saw an immediate improvement in his mood.  Eventually I started feeding him around 3 and walla no more psycho.  To this day he really is hungry about 3.  If one of us is here that is when he gets dinner.  Recently he didn't get his dinner until after 7 and he wound up barfing it up.  He got too empty.

So may be you need to experiment with his feeding times - I imagine you are on 3x daily so if he is desperately hungry at 5 am see if you can alter your feeding times so that he can make it until 6 (or whenever you get up).  Seriously my recollection with Bugsy leads me to think that he is really hungry.

As for the potty training - we were spoiled - but I would try to get into a routine of taking him out until he goes within a 30 minutes or so of eating.  I would also be taking water up in the evening - honest it will be fine and you will be better able to control when he NEEDS to pee.  The pooping should be a pretty regular time period after he eats.

I presume that you have the divider in the crate so he can't pee where he sleeps.  Honestly I think it is important for him to take on your schedule and at nearly 3 months I don't believe he should really need to go out at 3 am having been out at midnight, a smaller dog may be.

What worked for us was being very regular about feeding times and taking him out.  We also exercised him a lot so that he was tired when he went in his crate.

Hang in there - he'll get it and you'll hardly remember these times  

OK at least that's something - the experts will be here shortly I am sure! 

Thanks K.

A few things. I am only putting treats in the cage periodically during the day because I was told to make the cage a good thing for him...that he will not be afraid of it,,will think of it as a good thing because of food.  It has worked becaue before he would not go close to it on his own.

He is getting tons of exercise. Besides walking, and playing with us.... teaching him fetch and bring back the ball..he has tons of toys he plays with and chews.  All different kinds and he does play with them for about an hour after a nap each day.... maybe more. Actually he really doesn't sleep as much as I thought a baby would. He does'nt seem to stay sleeping long though....he seems restless,,,being sound asleep and then getting up and turning a different way, lots of times during one nap. I imagine he does it at night too.

At night he is sleeping before going to bed because after a while you can't keep him awake. He plays until he is tired. But even that doesn't make a difference in his sleeping in the crate. We had company Sat night and he was up most of the night. Ate supper later also. Made absolutely NO difference. Still got up at 3 crying and still got up at 5 to eat.  

Yes..I believe he is hungry.  We feed him at 5 AM. Then again about 1. .then again about 7.

He is fine with all those times except he is really starved at the 5 AM feeding.

I also believe he doesn't need to go out at 3 after going out at 12,,,but.... twice he pooped in his cage....and thats not fun...I'm sure you know that one.   Jumping in it and pushing it out the wire cage all over the floor etc.   I always had dogs that go out 3 times a day PERIOD...so this is tough. I somehow believe he MIGHT do that one day..but can't imagine!  LOL!  We are still taking him out after he wakes up... and a while IF he had a lot of water. I do pick up his water by 8:30 PM.  WE take him out about 1/2 at least after he eats.  WE are keeping a pretty regular schedule. 

 One thing.. I believe he is not peeing until he is done.  He sometimes pee's and comes for his praise and goodboy, and then squats and pee's again.

I did not put the divider in...I will do that tonight.

I wonder if I will live thru this. Or keep my job after not sleeping much.  YIKES!

Ear plugs DO work kind of.

hmm... I read another post by you (in a different thread) and I replied there, but I'm not sure if you will see it. Anyways - it was about your pup shreading his potty pad inside his crate. Are you still doing this? If so - take it out! That will confuse the pup. I put a small towel or blankie in my crates, some fun toys, and a kong treat. He's not too young for a kong - we've got 7 and 8 week old pups eating out of them now. Maybe some other 'brain' treat disensers would be good for him too - to tire him mentally. What basic training have you started? I like to teach my young pups sit, shake, and lay down before 3 months. They seem so much easier to train at that age - keeep the sessions short, little bits will go a long way.

Make sure the crate is only big enough where he can stand up, turn around and sit. Other wise he'll have too much room to potty and such.

I put an old fashion alarm clock under a teddy bear in my crates. The ticking sounds like a mothers heartbeat - and you would be so suprised at how fast they settle down. They have special bears that have heat and heartbeats too - I think you can get them at petsmart and they aren't too expensive. I might look into one next time I've got a foster pup (sticking to kittens for now.....less work!!!)

dyan

Still got up at 3 crying and still got up at 5 to eat.  

hmmm sounds like he has his schedule - not sure how to break this - the 3 o'clock thing.  There is no way that he really needs to go - in my opinion, he is just waking up and knows that you'll get up and take him out of the dreaded crate.  Peeing is just the excuse.

I'm sure he'll get it, I'm afraid we were spoiled, Bugsy 'got' potty training almost instantly so i am not really sure what to say. 

dyan

I did not put the divider in...I will do that tonight.

Honest Dyan I know people say all dogs will feign hunger but I can remember how 'starved' B was, i too was, shall we say careful, with how much I fed him but he was sooooooooooo restless and then he'd eat and collapse.  I had to learn that he needed more than I was giving him and also when his hungry times were.

It is probably too soon to expect the 3x daily but it should be a regular intervals (pooping)  I know DH is home with him may be he can start to see a pattern with it. 

dyan

He sometimes pee's and comes for his praise and goodboy, and then squats and pee's again.

Like I said we were pretty spoiled it was too easy - but - I do think that Gibson is old enough and big enough now to start being a little tougher with him.   It does sound a little bit like he is clever and has discovered ways to get more attention.  The longer you guys get up with him the more established it will be.

I hope the divider works as then you know he will wait to go out

Once again I hope that the more experienced people will chime in.

kpwlee

not sure how to break this - the 3 o'clock thing.  There is no way that he really needs to go - in my opinion, he is just waking up and knows that you'll get up and take him out of the dreaded crate. 

I disagree. Pups can not hold it forever, and they sure aren't going to sleep through the entire night - just like a human baby. I've had quite a few pups, and most seem to 'have to go' at the dreaded 3 o'clock hour....it's a PITA, but it DOES get better, as he grows - so will his bladder, and his ablilty to hold it. The last thing you want to do is leave him in the crate when he has to go, and allow him to potty in there. He'll get it! Hang in there!

I didn't see when Gibson came home, but was he in a different time zone?  If so, he may have...jet lag (sort of). Also, if he's starving at 5 a.m., how about a light snack about thirty minutes before bed? You know, a bit of canned food, or, if you're feeding raw, some hamburger and rice--just a bit. Wait twenty minutes and take him out and then off to bed.  it's worth a shot!

You guys are great...thanks for you suggestions and help!

We put the divider in the crate for a start!  So we'll see on that.

Erica,,,you said what I was thinking...that if I don't let him out to pee and he does it in his crate...its kind of my fault. I only put the pad in the crate a couple of days...when he chewed it,,,it was the last time.

K, your right, there is no doubt about the fact that he is outsmarting us...he's got us good. Get me out of my crate or I will make a mess.  Can't deny that!  HHHmm!

Lorib... I give him quite a few pieces of kibble...after his supper. But again..I guess I'm afraid he will have to go again. 

Sheesh...you would think I never raised a puppy before!

Oh can I feel your pain!

When we brought Kord home I had no crate, I finally got one a week after he was here for the sole reason of having a few puppy free moments. But Kord was a kennel pup, so the crate was right up his alley!

Is the crate near you when you sleep? or is it in a different room? I don't think I read that anywhere.

Kord got his meals every 8 hours, 6am, 2pm and 10pm, (our schedule allowed it) but I can tell you at even on that schedule the bugger was STARVING at 6am, you would think he had never seen food before the way he attacked his dish. I actually had to dump his food on the floor to slow him down and stop him from inhaling it.

I wish you the best with your baby.

Dyan--I'm not a pup expert but I think you are going to see an improvement with the peeing and pooping with the divider in.  If you are using a crate for him for an adult then he's go so much room in there. 

Anyway, just wanted to say that Gibson is very lucky to have such wonderful parents and everything will be just fine.  You guys know what to do.

Could you perhaps give him a Kong with frozen canned food, or kibble mixed with something semi-wet that will freeze, right before bedtime or during his middle of the night potty run..so that it thaws a bit and he can nibble on it? Perhaps that little bit of food during the night/early morning will keep him satisfied until breakfast, without loading him down with a full meal

Truley

Is the crate near you when you sleep? or is it in a different room?

That is what I was wondering.  Some pups need to be in the bedroom on eye level with their owners to be able to sleep soundly.

Feeding him in his crate will further reenforce the prohibition against soiling his crate.

No,,the crate is not in my room.  I was going to use Callies suggestion to try to put a dog bed next to my bed that is blocked off so he could be by us..but I didn't because I couldn't figure out what to block with and really am afraid he will get up and wet the floor.

Last night I put the divider in...put his bed in and he went to sleep after going out about 12:30. He didn't bark at all when we first put him to bed. He woke up about 2:45, I took him out and he went both ways.  I was really happy because I didn't have to worry for a while.  I was off work today.. DH got up with him this morning at about 5:30.. he said he thinks he barked from the time I put him back to bed until DH got up and got him out. Thats a couple of hours...my ear plugs worked...I hear him but doze so not sure if he stopped or not.  I gave him a some dry kibble as I put him back in the crate after going out, more then I usually do. When I got up this morning...I see that his bed was wet on one part.

In the end, I think last night was even worse than other nights IF he really did bark and cry from 3 until he got up at 5.

He has to be in a crate when we are gone, he is a puppy and will be gnawing on a toy and a cupboard the next second. The crate does not fit in my room to begin with...and I had hoped that if he outgrew his crate and was a fairly good boy evenutally that he could stay in the laundry room ( where the crate now is ) until he could be fully trustable..... as we did with Bubby.

Of course now he is sleeping soundly.   He is tired.  So are we!

dyan

No,,the crate is not in my room. 

How about putting a towel inside your bed clothes for a couple of nights, putting the towel in a mesh laundry bag, and hanging that on the side of his crate?  Does he have a ticking clock and a heat source?

Do you have a Snuggle Safe Microwave Heatpad - a disk heated in the microwave (better than a hot water bottle) to keep the pup/dog warm for up to 12 hours?  See www.Jefferspet.com or www.Dog.com.  You might be able to find one at PetSmart.

A couple of nights ago I put a tee shirt in of mine for him to sleep with.  Of course when he pee'd on it..I took it out to wash it.

A thought.....its hot as heck here...and he is already 10 weeks old...his little belly is hot when we hold him. He is in the laundry room and the air is turned off in there.   Do you think that something to keep him warm is what he needs?  

Someone mentioned the bear that you can buy that has the heart beat...saw it at PetSmart last week..or even the alarm clock, I did that for my other puppies the first few nights away from their litter....but again he has been away from the litter for over 3 weeks, could something like that still be his problem?