The Elitist Attitude.

 meilani,

It does not matter where the majority of dogs that are in a shelter come from.  All that matters is that they are there and too many of them will never be adopted due to their black coloring and/or their size.  If breeders continue to provide dogs that are large or have black in their coats they are harming these dogs by competing for too few homes available to them!  That is irresponsible and unethical!  Therefore NO "responsible" or "ethical" breeder will breed large dogs or dogs that have any black in their coat! 

Mark

Marklf

If breeders continue to provide dogs that are large or have black in their coats they are harming these dogs by competing for too few homes available to them!  That is irresponsible and unethical!  Therefore NO "responsible" or "ethical" breeder will breed large dogs or dogs that have any black in their coat! 

As the owner of a fairly large, totally black, responsibly bred dog...can't say that I agree with that.  I don't personally believe that the "market" that would be "scared" of a black dog at a shelter are the ones who would go to a responsible breeder.  Those savvy enough to seek out a responsible breeder are generally educated enough to know that black dogs aren't any scarier than any other dog.  JMHO. 

Marklf

 meilani,

It does not matter where the majority of dogs that are in a shelter come from.

Actually it does matter because if you want to end the shelter/rescue overpopulation, you have to target the source and that's irresponsible breeders and irresponsible owners.

All that matters is that they are there and too many of them will never be adopted due to their black coloring and/or their size.  If breeders continue to provide dogs that are large or have black in their coats they are harming these dogs by competing for too few homes available to them!

No one is stopping people from adopting a large black shelter dog just like no one is forcing someone to buy a large black dog from a breeder.  Not to mention that responsible breeders are already in the minority so whether they breed or not has no effect on shelter/rescue adoption.

That is irresponsible and unethical!  Therefore NO "responsible" or "ethical" breeder will breed large dogs or dogs that have any black in their coat! 

Mark

If you believe that if responsible breeders stopped breeding large black dogs that there will never be large black dogs in shelters and rescues then I have a Sears Tower to sell you.

Benedict

As the owner of a fairly large, totally black, responsibly bred dog...can't say that I agree with that.  I don't personally believe that the "market" that would be "scared" of a black dog at a shelter are the ones who would go to a responsible breeder.  Those savvy enough to seek out a responsible breeder are generally educated enough to know that black dogs aren't any scarier than any other dog.  JMHO. 

That is exactly the point!  Those that are afraid of large black dogs at a shelter wont go to a "responsible" breeder which means that those that are are not afraid of a large black dog should be going to the shelter to get their dogs!  Instead they are going to breeders which means that the large black dogs in the shelter will not have as good a chance to get adopted.  Therefore no "ethical" or "responsible" breeder will breed dogs that will compete with shelter dogs for the too few homes that are available for large black dogs!

Mark

Marklf

That is exactly the point!  Those that are afraid of large black dogs at a shelter wont go to a "responsible" breeder which means that those that are are not afraid of a large black dog should be going to the shelter to get their dogs!  Instead they are going to breeders which means that the large black dogs in the shelter will not have as good a chance to get adopted.  Therefore no "ethical" or "responsible" breeder will breed dogs that will compete with shelter dogs for the too few homes that are available for large black dogs!

 

Ummm....what?  I should have gone to a shelter instead of a breeder simply because of my dog's colour?  My other requirements - breed, age, temperament, parents hip scores, knowledge of the breeder that I can rely on, energy level etc....don't matter as much as the colour?  So breeders shouldn't breed dogs that pass all my other requirements because dogs of that colour that may fulfill none of those other requirements are sitting in shelters?

I can't pretend that's the first time I've been told that I should have rescued rather than bought a dog...but congratulations on coming up with an original reason why. 

Wow, this thread is out there.

I won't call myself an elitist, but I do believe in responsible breeding. I wouldn't buy a pure bred dog from a petstore or a byb. Why would I shell out money for a poorly bred dog when I could get a great mix breed that needs a home from rescue or shelter? I have one mixed breed dog (who is my heart and soul) and one pure bred who is my 2nd dog (I love her to bits too, but Salem still has my heart). I decided to go with a pure bred dog because I wanted a healthy puppy that was somewhat predictable as far as size and that had proven parents that would excel at activities that I was interested in. I needed a dog that would be smaller then Salem and fit his personality and playstyle well. I wouldn't have that predictability from a poorly bred dog. I have seen some pretty far from standard pure breds come from irresponsible breeders.

Glenda, I would love to see pictures of Sheba (I haven't been here too long so I never have). I used to have a coworker with a white gsd that I loved to death. Salem was good friends with that dog before they moved.

Oh, and Salem is a large black dog so I wont agree with never breeding black dogs, lol. He obviously wasn't a planned litter and is presumed to be a gsd/lab but he is my cute little baby black bear and I love him to pieces.

meilani

If you believe that if responsible breeders stopped breeding large black dogs that there will never be large black dogs in shelters and rescues then I have a Sears Tower to sell you.

No I stated that no "ethical" or "responsible" breeder will breed dogs that will compete for the too few homes available for black and/or large dogs!  That will cause those people that desire large and/or black dogs to either go to the shelters to get them or resort to BYB or puppy mills.  Most people that would seek out "ethical" or "responsible" breeders would never buy from a BYB or a puppy mill therfore they will have to go to the shelters to get their large and/or black dogs.  This will greatly reduce the number of poor innocent black and/or large dogs PTS in the shelters! 

Mark

AgileGSD

Chuffy

True.  I was assuming he meant poor specimens would be denied registration, although as Liesje has already said that is not (currently) their responsibility.  Currently, if the sire is a reg'd purebred GSD and the dam is a reg'd purebred GSD, the pup can be a regd purebred GSD, even if he has spots.  That doesn't seem right to me....  but then I'm a self proclaimed elitist so... *shrug*
 

 Given the situation in Belgians with color/coat stuff, I am quite glad even puppies from parents with DQs can be registered and that dogs with DQs can be as well. It would REALLY only serve to further screw up the color issue in Belgians if that weren't the case. Also sometimes there is a place in a breeding program for a dog with a cosmetic DQ.

Agreed, but having a cosmetic fault outweighed by other virtues that contribute to the line is a world away from just simply being an extremely poor example of the breed.   

Marklf

No I stated that no "ethical" or "responsible" breeder will breed dogs that will compete for the too few homes available for black and/or large dogs!  That will cause those people that desire large and/or black dogs to either go to the shelters to get them or resort to BYB or puppy mills.  Most people that would seek out "ethical" or "responsible" breeders would never buy from a BYB or a puppy mill therfore they will have to go to the shelters to get their large and/or black dogs.  This will greatly reduce the number of poor innocent black and/or large dogs PTS in the shelters! 

 

Does that mean that the black dogs who happen randomly and/or unpredictably in a litter of well bred pups should never have been born?  Should my dog, and the other 6 black labs in his litter, have been PTS, and only the 6 chocolate ones found responsible homes?  Because it's not always predictable when breeding colour, you know... 

ETA:  I see no argument whatsoever good enough to make people wanting a large black dog "resort" to a BYB.  They won't all go to shelters....encouraging people to go to BYB's is exactly what we're trying to move away FROM.

ETA again:  At the time of my initial enquiry to my dog's breeder, there was not a single large black dog in any shelter within 30 miles of me.  Nor was there a single lab.  95% of the identifiable dogs were staffies, boxers, yorkies or mixes of those.  The others were totally unidentifiable and all were, for one reason or another, totally incompatible with my lifestyle.

Someone has tried to turn this thread very silly, and lots of people have allowed that someone to be successful... 

Yeah, I think its time to stop feeding the troll.

Your right about the troll!

Edited by self, I am done.

Marklf

No I stated that no "ethical" or "responsible" breeder will breed dogs that will compete for the too few homes available for black and/or large dogs!  That will cause those people that desire large and/or black dogs to either go to the shelters to get them or resort to BYB or puppy mills.  Most people that would seek out "ethical" or "responsible" breeders would never buy from a BYB or a puppy mill therfore they will have to go to the shelters to get their large and/or black dogs.  This will greatly reduce the number of poor innocent black and/or large dogs PTS in the shelters!

Obviously he's being facetious. I think this thread is absolutely insane. Those who think BYBs are fine, then go ahead. go buy your $100 "AKC registered" dog. I just hope you get LUCKY enough to not go through what i've been through with a poorly bred dog. I REFUSE to ever buy from a BYB, and will continue to discourage everyone i know to do the same. So until then, i will be proud to be called a "snob" or an "elitist". If my dog is not a responsibly bred dog, then it will be from a shelter.

pups are brought in from outside the continental US that you want to see proof of?? LOL In New England our spay/neuter rate is pretty good and shelters get pups from hundreds of miles (and more) away.

Believe it! Importing---from outside a state or even outside the continental US is a reality in some places. I know of many shelters/rescues that transport from other states and it seems the majority of their puppies come from outside their area. Example of a group that brings pups to the continental US: Save a Sato "Save A Sato is a non-profit organization dedicated to easing the suffering of Puerto Rico's homeless and abused animals. "Sato" is slang for street dog. We rescue Satos from the streets and beaches, give them medical care, food and shelter, and plenty of love. When they are healthy, we send them to one of our shelter partners for adoption into loving homes"

polarexpress, that is what I said did happen - (see my mention on Maryland Shelters taking some of our SE Virginia dogs - )Believe it! Importing---from outside a state .....is a reality in some places) i.e. rescues bringing in pups from overcrowded shelters or poor conditions in other countries, provided they have the resources and the time to organize such things.

 
I know of many shelters/rescues that transport from other states and it seems the majority of their puppies come from outside their area - That's great, but how do people use this to make the arguement that there is pet underpopulation? Because they are taking dogs from other overcrowded areas. The total number of dogs stays the same.  You can't use this as an arguement for country/worldwide pet underpopulation. Poor distribution of 'pets', perhaps - too many some places and a lack of toys/puppies/whatever elsewhere. But again, there are still more dogs than willing homes.

 
What people were arguing was that shelters are "flying in dogs in order to make some sort of a profit because shelter workers are so greedy, etc.