Fear of posting, lack of trust, hurt feelings

I really appreciate this forum. I've learned SO much! I've even learned just how much more I want to learn, too ... heh.

I'm grateful for learning stuff that's new, and getting to share and practice articulating what I'm learning when the opportunity arises. I appreciate those of you who are uberpolite as much as I appreciate the curmudgeonly snap of others. What a rich social landscape! []

I get impatient with yahoo groups, having to read through chatty personal emails to find the informational nuggets. The idog format, however, is streamlined: it's easy to fast-scroll through threads that get way off topic, have major hijacking, or have ideology wars with nauseous amounts of quoting.

The only time I'm frustrated is when the community is so busy with dramas that interesting questions aren't being answered, especially when they're mine! [8D]

I really like this forum...I lurked for a long time before I joined...I dont think anyone should fear posting..This is a computer there is an off switch...I dont care if this is a forum or a chat room..there is always going to be conflict between people now and then..It's very hard to tell how people are feeling when you can't see there face...And sometimes a post is taken out of context....

agree with whoever said that the folks who MOST need this thread are conspicuously absent from it. Hmmmmmm

 
Gee, I hope that doesn't include myself!  I have not been logged on here since Thurs. of last week and am just seeing this thread for the first time.  Maybe others haven't had a chance to even read all of this yet.??? 
 
The biggest problem I have found here is the intimidation factor of brutally attacking posts by a few.  It's only a few, so that's a good thing!  New dog owners asking a question and being ripped a new one and being told they are sub-human for mistakes they've made simply because they didn't know any better. 
 
At some point we all have to realize we are talking about dogs here.  I love dogs and I imagine you all do as well.  However, we all have different lives and situations and I can't imagine suggesting that someone get divorced, sell their home or hock their jewelry to pay for premium dog food.  People matter too and we have to remember that! 
 
We are discussing dogs, not a cure for cancer!  It's sad that people are afraid to post for fear of retribution.  I am a student dog trainer and am sometimes hesitant to post a suggestion to someone for fear that I'll be "wrong" or feel like an idiot in the making!  That's my problem and only I can control it and get over it. 
 
I think for the most part this forum is very civil and well moderated. 

I don't mind starting posts, as after a while you can mostly tell what starts a war, but I tend not to answer as many as I could since I will always feel that I don't know as much as some of the "regulars" and that my advice might not be the best.

 
Well said, and I completely agree. I will wholeheartedly admit to "sticking my tail between my legs" and avoiding potentially heated subjects. But that all reverts back to my own personality type being one that can't stand having people upset with me. It literally drives me up the wall, so I tend to try and avoid ticking people off, even though I should probably speak my mind more openly at times.
 
For the most part though, I absolutely adore this forum, and the people who make it what it is.

Just because I am new to this forum does not mean I am new to forums, life, or dog ownership in general…in other words this isn#%92t my first rodeo!  Many times I am reluctant to post here…but certainly not afraid to post…nor do I have a lack of self-esteem.  When I do post a question, or thought, I am prepared to defend it.  In my opinion, forums in general are not for thin-skinned or overly sensitive people.
 
When I post a topic or question, there are few things that I expect up-front on a forum full of complete strangers.  I know that there#%92s a good possibility that someone may: disagree, give me unsolicited advice, crap all over my post that I have put tremendous thought into prior to writing it, attempt to disguise rudeness as honesty, attempt to have a battle of wits although unarmed, respond with the sole purpose of getting an inflammatory response, respond with only the info that is currently available to them although stating “facts” (which are constantly changing), etc…the list is exhaustive.  They may also pleasantly surprise me by: agreeing, responding with kindness, being supportive, adding helpful insights/perspectives/opinions & experiences…but I don#%92t necessarily expect it to come without the polar opposite.
 
However, my hopes from members on this forum are: to be treated with the same respect one would want for themselves (except for the people who don#%92t respect themselves), to always be given the benefit of the doubt, to be asked for more info before making an ass-umption, to realize not every solution is for every person or animal, to realize they are interacting with another human being, to realize just because they have an opinion doesn#%92t mean they need to share it, to realize just because they have a thought they need to act on it, to realize that some people have done research before coming to this forum, to realize this forum is NOT an authority on any dog or animal-related topic, that the opinions and perspectives of forum members are just that – opinions – professional or otherwise, and last but not least my hope is for collaboration, an open-minded exchange of ideas & experiences and to share this crazy journey with each other and our dogs.
 
Words – spoken or written – are very powerful.  In this forum, they can be used to add to our cyber-relationship with one another or to take away.  I, for one, try as hard as I can to add, not take away.

ORIGINAL: Angelique

Sometimes a dog forum reminds me more of the Roman Collossium. Guess maybe I've been watching too many gladiator movies lately! I have "Ben-Hur" in right now. [8D]

[]

I really don't mind if someone disagrees with me here. I know that I have unintentionally insulted others (a particular english pointer discussion comes to mind) and felt really bad and have tried to set right.  I know that I can be a know-it-all sometimes. 

What makes me crazy is when I'm told that what I dowith my dog is entirely wrong and horribly abusive.  I also get upset when I ask a simple question about legal equipment at a trial and get digitally yelled at about how I train my dog.  When I responded to the irrelivent post, I never got a response from her/him to explain the nasty post, but did get blasted in defense to his/her post by another person.  All I asked, originally, was if a certain collar was legal in the obedience ring!  I was defended by a couple of knowledgable poster (thank you)so I just let it drop. 

I've gotten a thicker skin though, and have learned to just ignore rudeness.  I think this board is a great source of information so I continue here. 

Just logging on after a busy weekend...

I try my hardest to post things carefully. I do my darndest to treat people with kindness and respect, because I do care about them. I know there have to be times when I've failed in that respect, and for that I'm truly sorry. I generally avoid tumultuous threads, because I prefer to avoid conflict. I don't really feel uncomfortable posting - nor do I feel any sense of conflict with any members here personally (although someone may have a beef with me - and it that's the case I always want to make things right). Actually, I rather like everyone here. I think it's important that we all consider our words, though, and I mean this for myself too.

Good stuff in this thread y'all.

But I believe those of us who can hold back should go the extra step and try to calm down those who can't when things seem to be getting out of hand.

 
I adamantly agree with one proviso.  Saying things like "Calm down", "Don't get your panties in a wad", "You are over reacting", etc. are NOT the way to peace.  They simply tell the other person that you are discounting their feelings. 
 
Rules I would like to see people follow:

• No name calling.  Don't tell people they are ignorant, stupid, crazy, etc.
  
• No insults.  Things like "You are not listening", "You are killing your dog", "You shouldn't even have a dog", "You don't know what you are talking about", etc.
  
• Don't take offense unless you are sure that offense was intended.  Even then take the high road and first assume that the person is having a bad day, has difficulty expressing themselves, or is not a native English speaker.  Use the same skills that you use to turn a small child's "I hate you" into "What is wrong and how do I fix it?".
  
• Refuse to fight.  It is hard to have a one-sided fight.  If you do not reflect a person's anger back at them, it becomes very difficult for that person to maintain their anger level.
  
• Use "I" and avoid "you".   Defuse conflict by starting sentences with "I" - "I think", "I believe", "I understood", "I had success with", "I suggest", "I may not have expressed myself well", "I must have misunderstood", "I'm sorry", "I didn't intend to", etc.
  
• Reverse roles.  Just before posting always take a deep breath and re-read the text assuming that you are the recipient.  Wait 10 minutes after completing the text if that is required for the role reversal.  If your text in inflamatory, change it!
  
• Repetitive info.  For information that may be appropriate on numerous threads, post the information once and after that post a title and a link to that information.

An exercise:
The next time you find yourself in a conversation where the other person gets angry and loud, force yourself to keep your own voice very even and calm (takes practice).  Use non-aggressive verbage.  Gradually make your voice softer and softer.  The other person will almost always calm down.  Think about it - how many whispered fights have you ever had?
 
This is one version of refusing to "reflect" a person's anger back at them.  Good police officers use this technique all the time!  They "reflect" the other person's anger "away" and do not internalize it.
 
One day my now-former brother-in-law was amazed to realize that my sister had broken him of yelling by repeatedly using that method.   [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif] 
 
Note:   Insults and name calling are usually an indication that the writer/speaker needs to work on improving their communication skills and/or their self esteem.  Remember that the next time you feel the urge to use that sort of verbage.  
 
Yep, that last sentence is a little on the inflammatory side, but sometimes one just has to be a bit blunt.  However, note the difference in tone of "Anyone who feels the urge to use that sort of verbage should remember that."  All I did was re-phrase to take out the more personal word "you".
 
Personally I can very politely chew someone up one wall and down another without raising my voice - if I choose to do so.  That was one of the confrontation management skills I learned during years as the User Services Manager (read "complaint department") of a university computer center and it is a skill that I very seldom find it necessary to use.  Students who swiped computer account numbers did get a demonstration. [sm=devil.gif]

THAT is a very valuable post.  Personally I think it (or something very like it) should be stickied somewhere!

ORIGINAL: janet_rose


I adamantly agree with one proviso.  Saying things like "Calm down", "Don't get your panties in a wad", "You are over reacting", etc. are NOT the way to peace.  They simply tell the other person that you are discounting their feelings. 
 
Rules I would like to see people follow:

• No name calling.  Don't tell people they are ignorant, stupid, crazy, etc.
  
• No insults.  Things like "You are not listening", "You are killing your dog", "You shouldn't even have a dog", "You don't know what you are talking about", etc.
  
• Don't take offense unless you are sure that offense was intended.  Even then take the high road and first assume that the person is having a bad day, has difficulty expressing themselves, or is not a native English speaker.  Use the same skills that you use to turn a small child's "I hate you" into "What is wrong and how do I fix it?".
  
• Refuse to fight.  It is hard to have a one-sided fight.  If you do not reflect a person's anger back at them, it becomes very difficult for that person to maintain their anger level.
  
• Use "I" and avoid "you".   Defuse conflict by starting sentences with "I" - "I think", "I believe", "I understood", "I had success with", "I suggest", "I may not have expressed myself well", "I must have misunderstood", "I'm sorry", "I didn't intend to", etc.
  
• Reverse roles.  Just before posting always take a deep breath and re-read the text assuming that you are the recipient.  Wait 10 minutes after completing the text if that is required for the role reversal.  If your text in inflamatory, change it!
  
• Repetitive info.  For information that may be appropriate on numerous threads, post the information once and after that post a title and a link to that information.

An exercise:
The next time you find yourself in a conversation where the other person gets angry and loud, force yourself to keep your own voice very even and calm (takes practice).  Use non-aggressive verbage.  Gradually make your voice softer and softer.  The other person will almost always calm down.  Think about it - how many whispered fights have you ever had?
 
This is one version of refusing to "reflect" a person's anger back at them.  Good police officers use this technique all the time!  They "reflect" the other person's anger "away" and do not internalize it.
 
One day my now-former brother-in-law was amazed to realize that my sister had broken him of yelling by repeatedly using that method.   [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif] 
 
Note:   Insults and name calling are usually an indication that the writer/speaker needs to work on improving their communiction skills and/or their self esteem.  Remember that the next time you feel the urge to use that sort of verbage.  
 
Yep, that last sentence is a little on the inflammatory side, but sometimes one just has to be a bit blunt.  However, note the difference in tone of "Anyone who feels the urge to use that sort of verbage should remember that."  All I did was re-phrase to take out the more personal word "you".
 
Personally I can very politely chew someone up one wall and down another without raising my voice - if I choose to do so.  That was one of the confrontation management skills I learned during years as the User Services Manager (read "complaint department") of a university computer center and it is a skill that I very seldom find it necessary to use.  Students who swiped computer account numbers did get a demonstration. [sm=devil.gif]

That's an excellent post and I would LOVE to see it as a sticky. There's some really great info in there that I'm going to use. Thank you! []

I never felt afraid to post, nor have I ever been upset by oppositional views. But, now that I've started reading through this thread, I feel more self conscious about posting... [&:]

You don't expect 2,000 folks to get along in a physical world, and in this virtual world we wouldn't either. The way I look at it, if you try to be everybody's friend you'll end up being nobody's friend. It's OK to form 'circles' with folks whose views you appreciate. Train your ego to admit that what you've been wrong; it's all about learning anyway. Arguing is fun. Ignore fools.

I haven't been here long, but I haven't found anybody to be annoying. I won't use a block function, some people are just more amusing than others.

If Anne and I can get along then all can get along [], i can be having a heated discussion with Chuffy or Ed and at the same time i can be posting on their No Dog Related threads like if nothing had happen
 
The only thing i cant stand is the newbies that dont use the search button for a question that has been answered a million times before!!!!, even when the same topic is only 2 threads below, thats why i dont post as much on the Behavior thread anymore, i feel myself in a deja vu reading over and over the same things, i know, i know that probably they are just mothers that are not very computer-forum oriented and are only looking for help but i cant help it, if maybe the admin could just have a sticky with this link []:
 
[linkhttp://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php]http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php[/link]
 
 

Hello:
 
I am one of the newbies on this forum, however not new in the dog world of showing, grooming, training etc,  and I see it all the time people getting hurt by things that are said, those of us that beed are sometimes reminded that we are here to help those who need help and to better our breed, I really think some forget this. or for example breed clubs, are for what ever event not just for conformation, some who do just breed, sometimes forget that it is not just conformation but obedience, agility, flyball etc, I will not go on and on about it.
 
i always tell people that no question is stupid! if any one is not sure about something please do not wait to ask those of us who have the experence and years behind us because that is what we are here for  to help one another.
 
thats it for now
 
Lisa  

ORIGINAL: espencer
If Anne and I can get along then all can get along [], i can be having a heated discussion with Chuffy or Ed and at the same time i can be posting on their No Dog Related threads like if nothing had happen

That's because we take the topics very seriously, but we don't hold a grudge.  Glad you noticed that. []