Dog Community

Physical Punishment for Kids.....

Posted : 11/21/2007 1:42:28 PM

Well, this came up in the other thread and I was interested in other's thoughts, so I decided to start a new thread. I was curious as to everyone's thoughts on physical punishment--spanking, pinching, slapping (for older kids), etc--effectiveness, emotional impact, etc

In the interest of full disclosure I should say that although I do not have kids, I was a kid at one point. My mom rarely used spanking. She reserved it for times when I had done something life threatening (like run out into the road) in order to make an impact, although I actually never remember being spanked. Mom was a "choose you consequence" type mother, and she did say that once I asked to be spanked rather than have my toys be taken away or have a time out. She said she was horrified and refused to spank me. She did slap me in the face once as a teenager, but I totally deserved it--I had an awful mouth on me back then.

Even though she was the most likely of my parents to give out physical punishment, I never feared my mom. I respected/do respect her, and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that even though she may have on occasion used physical punishment, she was fair and consistent--I always knew what to expect.

My dad was actually the one I was afraid of, and he never touched/threatened to touch me, but he yelled--a lot. He never really gave much warning or had much rhyme or reason to his outbursts (at least in the eyes of a small kid). I was a sensitive kid, and was terrified of him for a long time.

DH, on the other hand, was spanked and screamed at regularly as a kid by his mother, and would just laugh at her (along with the rest of his siblings--5 brothers and 2 sisters). Their father tended to step in and discipline only when their mother was totally at her wit's end, and they respected what their father said and did.

Basically, I think that a punishment, consequence, parenting tool, whatever--is only as good as the person that is using said tool, and depends very much on the individual child's temperament. To say that all spanking is damaging to every child is like saying that every person that uses a choke collar is going to hang their dog.

Thoughts?

rwbeagles

Posted : 11/21/2007 1:52:06 PM

Think we discussed this not too terribly long ago...but who knows where that post is now LOL.

I have a full toolbox...and the tool used depends on the situation at hand. This subject is seldom one where people can remain civil, and non judgemental...so that's all I will say.

ETA: here's the old thread.

http://community.dog.com/forums/p/19520/224118.aspx#224118

probe1957

Posted : 11/21/2007 2:05:02 PM

I don't remember my dad ever spanking me. I imagine he did as I am certain I deserved it, but I don't remember it. Mother, OTOH....

One time my brother (5 years younger than I) and I were doing something that irritated my mom. I have no idea what it was. She was, as I recall, running the vacuum cleaner. She stopped and commenced to beat my (about) 12 year old butt with a wooden spoon. With every whack, I would say "Ahhhh. Do it again. Do it again." Mother, recognizing that her selected method of punishment was not having the desired effect, started beating my butt with the cord on the vacuum cleaner. Suffice it to say, there was no more, "Do it again."

To answer your question, I absolutely believe in spanking. Show me a kid who never gets spanked and I will show you a brat. A brat with parents who are, for whatever reason, blissfully unaware of how the rest of the world sees their kids.

ETA: Gina, you will notice that I didn't say anything that could be seen as judgemental or uncivil. :)

DumDog

Posted : 11/21/2007 2:06:30 PM

my mom rarely spanked me.. but i never needed it... she tried to spank my brother but he would laugh at her so she gave up on it.. and got run over...

our dad was both respected and feared... he had eyes in the back of his head and telescopic arms that could reach across the room to thump you on the ear... he only spanked me.. ONCE!! yep. that was all it took. i did something bad, he spanked me, put me to bed for about ten minutes, then came in and gave me a talkin to.. nothing harsh but an explanation as to why i got spanked and if i understood that explanation..... and i did understand! after that all he had to was make the threat to spank and we would straighten up. if we broke something or if one of us tattled on the other we would be terrified of being spanked.. it was like awaiting a death sentence!! i dont know how often he spanked my sisters - i only visited on weekends and holidays - but he hardly ever had to actually spank... but if you were out in public with him and you were doing stuff you KNEW better than to do.. then he would thump you on the ear or the shoulder (it hurt too!!) and tell you to knock it off or else...

my stepmom was the one that would descend upon you in a flurry of spankings like some mad blue jay.... usually if we were acting like punks in the mall... she would warn you several times to behave, calm down, be quiet, stop that, get back here, put that back then smacksmacksmacksmack! i once got spanked because she THOUGHT i was doing something wrong.. she saw me headed towards a dressing rack - my sisters and i had been playing them all over the mall before being told to stop - when she saw me crouching down as if to crawl under she smacked me... but i wasnt crawling under it.. i saw a quarter on the floor and i wanted it!! and no she didnt apologize for spanking me lol

in the end we all showed more respect for my dad and step mom ... and other family members for that matter... not because we were spanked but because they controlled us and made us behave. and if we didnt the consequences were always the same. my mom would just fuss at us then give up....

one of my cousins makes me cringe at how she deals with her kids... she well YELL at them that she is going to knock their heads off.... and never do it.. and when she DOES spank them its without warning.... very random... and its MY feeling that she spanks way too hard... and her kids only behave for the next few minutes until they can find something else to get into or no one is looking.

with my own kids i have had to spank on the odd occasion if they are getting into something dangerous. i like the redirection approach MUCH better!!! kinda like with dogs lol tell them "No playing with X object/near the lamp/ etc" and move them off to one of their toys. though i have to admit when Cajah has his temper tantrums where HE tries to hit things, or throws toys or food because he cant get what he wants i'll pop him on the leg and tell him no.. Thank GOD he is growing out of that phase!!! but he is going head on into another phase where he thinks its funny to push his brother down, kick his brother, hit him with toys, or drop things on him, or jump on him.... so... yeah. thats dangerous and i spank him if i catch him doing those things to his little brother. All it takes is him pushing him into something, hitting his head the right way, and out go the lights.... but he's too young to understand THAT danger.. i cant really explain that to him and expect him to grasp the concept of it (and no he doesnt watch violent cartoons.. he's just a boy) i've already been warned that its going to get much much worse as they both get older.... fighting over toys, punching each other, biting, kicking, pushing, wrestling.. bloody noses, black eyes.....

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Posted : 11/21/2007 2:15:15 PM

My father had a vile temper and was always ready to whip his belt off without much provocation. He also yelled a lot. Most of the time we didn't have a clue what we had done, why he was yelling or exactly what it was that got his knickers in a twist. Because of that, I never spanked my own kids. I'll admit however to sometimes having a fantasy of driving across the state line and leaving them at a rest stop.

Joyce

Maxs Mom

Posted : 11/21/2007 2:34:08 PM

I was spanked as a child, most of the time when I deserved it. Never with an object other than my parents hand and never on bare skin. I learned to fear the punishment. That is what I think the problem is. There is no fear of punishment in this world anymore. I am not saying beating children, but I don't believe time outs are appropriate if a child tortures at cat (an example). Yesterday I read on CNN about 2 children 8 and 9 raping an 11 year old girl. This world is out of control IMO and prisons are not places to be afraid of anymore. I am not saying they are luxury hotels, but no one seems to fear going to prison. Not all children need to be spanked, I know several kids who are afraid of the time outs. Just some kids despite their parents efforts need punishment.

DumDog

Posted : 11/21/2007 2:49:23 PM

i think it depends on the prison... it is still a place to be feared.... inmates that attack guards have a tendency to "run into walls" or "fall down stairs" a lot.... i only say that because my family has worked in this field for many many many decades.

and you also have inmates that will discipline you properly if they dont like why you are in prison... "So you molested a kid eh? Well i have a ten year old daughter at home and i think guys like you are scum!" and thus the beatings commence... my grandad worked at one prison where a guy who killed his kid didnt last the first night. he was dead by morning and no one said a word.... its no picnic!!! and female prisons are probably the WORST of the bunch!!

i do agree though, a kid that is never punished will not be a productive or competent well balanced adult. why do i say that? because they were never taught consequences of an action. just like everyone here says a puppy should not be removed from its litter until a certain.... the mother and siblings teach the puppy the right way to behave, if not then he gets bitten or snapped at for being a butt head. its much the same with kids.. they need interaction and teaching and guidance.. and need to know what "Cause and Effect" are all about!!

dgriego

Posted : 11/21/2007 2:57:20 PM

I have two kids. I have spanked although I will say that to begin with I think it is only effective if administered in the proper state of mind.1. The child must understand that he is not to do something and he must understand the consequences if he chooses to do it anyway.2. Once the child does the action you tell them about the talk that you had and how you warned them of the consequences and then administer the spanking (never in anger)3. It (In my experience) only works for certain type kids. My oldest was spanked a few times, my youngest only once and never again. My youngest is a joy; he wants to please and is never defiant or rebellious. My oldest rebels against everything. If you told him he could not have ice cream, you would find him on a chair leaning into the freezer with a spoon in one hand urgently looking for the ice cream. If you told him not to go outside he would go, whatever line you drew he would step over it. Spanking worked for him, it did not work for his brother.

To me spanking was something that was given with a wooden kitchen spoon and to the backside only. It is controversial and I confess I hate seeing a screaming angry out of control parent slapping at a child.

With my oldest my husband and I were beside ourselves with what to do with him. He would bite other kids, slap them in the head with toys and fall on the ground in a fit if he did not get what he wanted. Both of us were in agreement that we would never spank our kids. I was given a book by a lady at our daycare called ‘Dare to Discipline” and we read it and applied it and our son changed overnight. I recall telling him about his fits and letting him know that he was not to behave like that, and letting him know that if he did he would get spanked on his butt with a wooden spoon. He had one fit, was spanked and never had another. So it does work, with the right kind of kid. My youngest would be crushed to receive a spanking and we have not used that tool with him.

chelsea_b

Posted : 11/21/2007 2:57:58 PM

If your (general your) kids are bad enough that you have to physically HURT them, you need to look at your own parenting. That is your fault, IMO. Period, the end.

probe1957

Posted : 11/21/2007 3:07:09 PM

chelsea_b

If your (general your) kids are bad enough that you have to physically HURT them, you need to look at your own parenting. That is your fault, IMO. Period, the end.

And how many kids do you have? Wink

To turn the table on you, if your kids are bad and you DON'T physically hurt them, you need to look at your own parenting. It is your fault.

UndefinedMelody

Posted : 11/21/2007 3:09:51 PM

I think there is a difference between spanking and physically hurting your kids. You don't have to physically hurt your kids for spanking to be affective. (or is it effective?)

probe1957

Posted : 11/21/2007 3:20:15 PM

I dunno. It always hurt when I got spanked. Wink

UndefinedMelody

Posted : 11/21/2007 3:26:26 PM

I got spanked once growing up and looking back on it now it was laughable. It was the act itself that straightened me up, not the pain(or lack there of.) All I knew was that my Daddy was not proud of me and I was really sad to make him disappointed. I never needed another spanking. After that he gave me a look that showed me he was disappointed with me and I straightened up fast.

Chuffy

Posted : 11/21/2007 4:14:42 PM

dgriego
1. The child must understand that he is not to do something and he must understand the consequences if he chooses to do it anyway.

Surely that tells the child that you expect them to do X and they go ahead and do it and get spanked???

I had my fingers tapped when reaching for something I was not allowed... I think. I don't think that counts. I was only really smacked once and I'm not sure if I still haven't forgiven the person who did it. I harboured a lot of resentment for a long time; I hated them and I would do anything to avoid them or doing anything they asked of me. I was about 5 or 6 at the time.

My elder brothers and sisters were spanked a fair bit. The younger ones (one of my older brothers, myself and my younger siblings) were not, as a rule. The younger ones have not turned out any worse than the others. We don't have less respect for our parents. As children, respect was born out of love and trust and affection and communication.

I can't abide the thought of striking children. And if it is OK to strike, then how much? Once? Twice? Three times? Light? Hard? Hard enough to leave a mark? a bruise? What with? Your hand? A belt? A stick? What age is it OK to strike a child? Four months? 12 months? 2 years? 3 years? 6 years? The thought of smacking a child younger than schoolage just makes me feel ill. And the thought of using anything more than your hand even more so.

With dogs, if punishment is to be used it should be used sparingly, judiciously and calmly, and that is even MORE true of physical punishment. This is even MORE true when it comes to children. I have said similar before and I say it without apology; why should human infants be less deserving of compassion, gentleness, respect and a genuine desire to communicate and foster trust than our four legged companions?

Chuffy

Posted : 11/21/2007 4:19:11 PM

UndefinedMelody
I got spanked once growing up and looking back on it now it was laughable. It was the act itself that straightened me up, not the pain(or lack there of.) All I knew was that my Daddy was not proud of me and I was really sad to make him disappointed. I never needed another spanking. After that he gave me a look that showed me he was disappointed with me and I straightened up fast.

That was the ONLY way your Daddy could have expressed how terribly disappointed he was?

Chelsea, I agree with you. If ever I feel I need to smack William to make my point, I will feel as if I have failed. Being an imperfect human, there is a chance I may fail at some point. But I certainly won't rely on physical punishment as an effective form of discipline, 1. because I don't think it IS all that effective in nearly all cases, and 2. because it goes against my moral compass.