Physical Punishment for Kids.....

probe1957

chelsea_b

If your (general your) kids are bad enough that you have to physically HURT them, you need to look at your own parenting. That is your fault, IMO. Period, the end.

And how many kids do you have? 

To turn the table on you, if your kids are bad and you DON'T physically hurt them, you need to look at your own parenting.  It is your fault.

haha!

actually seriously..

physically hurt.. whats that mean? bruises, welts? what? 

some kids i've seen turn into sobbing mortified puddles of three year old goo if their mom or dad raises their voice or acts upset, or even disappointed in their kid. But thats like.. what.. emotional trauma? is the kid going to turn into ted bundy because Dad said "NO!" in a firm and demanding tone of voice??

No, spanking isnt necessary for ALL kids... but for some of them time outs dont do the trick... my mom would send me to my room as punishment.. GOOD! all my stuff was in there anyway!
my dad would send me or my sisters to our room and make us sit on the bed, or make us sit on the sofa and we werent allowed to move for thirty minutes... we were too scared to even DARE to move.... he could be outside mowing the lawn and we would be like stone statues, scared to move an inch because we knew the other would snitch on us! then we would be DOOMED!!

you shouldnt spank your kid WHILE you are angry.... and you shouldnt screech at them in anger... you shouldnt leave marks on them...

and when i compare kids to puppies or dogs in regards to training.. i dont mean US humans training puppies or dogs.. i mean in the natural course of life in a litter of puppies... do you think Mama dog puts her puppy in time out because he left teeth marks on her nose?

I don't know if I was spanked, I really don't remember.  We would have to sit in a chair for a while.  The only time I remember being physically reprimanded was when my dad smacked me on my face, but I was mouthing off and deserved it.  I never did it again.  I think I was 11 at the time.

I can't say if I will spank or not b/c I don't have kids.  I think a lot of these decisions can really only be made when you are *in* that situation.  All I know is that I was not spanked for discipline and I turned into a very independent, responsible, accountable young adult so I don't see it as necessary. 

I watch Super Nanny a lot and I see many of the same basic principles as training dogs.  Most of the time, the parents are totally forgetting to reward the child when s/he does things right.  Why would a child behave the way the parent wants if the parent never praises or spends time with the child besides hitting and yelling? 

My mom worked when we were kids - sometimes part time, sometimes full time - but I remember her always reading to us, every single night.  We calmed down, we got to spend time together.... Mom would also sing with us or do coloring with us.  My little sis was the one that threw all the fits, but my mom told us just ignore her.  She would go to the time out chair and bawl and then after half an hour, she'd be fine again.  She didn't needed to be spanked, she just needed to be ignored.  When she stopped carrying on, my mom would talk to her again and invite her back to play, praise her for deciding to be good.

DumDog

physically hurt.. whats that mean? bruises, welts? what? 

Not necessarily, but spanking DOES hurt.  That's a good thing.  That's what makes it effective.

probe1957

And how many kids do you have?

That's beside the point. You go ahead and ask me when I DO have kids, if I would ever strike them. The answer will still be no. By the way... I spend over 50 hours a week with a 4 1/2 year old. Just me and her. She's very well-behaved. When she DOES act up, I don't have to cause her pain to get my point across. Just like I don't have to hurt a dog to make them behave. I have hit Cherokee before, and I still feel horrible about it. She didn't learn anything from it, and I did it because I thought it's what I was "supposed" to do. I have never hurt a child as punishment, and I never will.

Chuffy, I totally agree with everything you've said. Hitting a child under 5 or 6, or hitting ANY child with anything besides your hand..is nothing short of child abuse. Belts especially are just barbaric.

BTW, "physically hurt" to me means just that. Any kind of physical pain. Whether it's a sting from a smack, or a welt from a belt...pain is pain. Welts and bruises are abuse, IMO.

probe1957

To turn the table on you, if your kids are bad and you DON'T physically hurt them, you need to look at your own parenting.  It is your fault.

Uhm... DUH!!! If you think your child's bad behavior is not your fault, whether you use physical punishment or not, you're delusional.

chelsea_b

Uhm... DUH!!! If you think your child's bad behavior is not your fault, whether you use physical punishment or not, you're delusional.

I don't find personal attacks very convincing but, when you're wrong, you only have so many tools at your disposal, so I will let it go.

How my child behaves is not my fault.  Whether or not I correct inappropriate behavior is.

probe1957

How my child behaves is not my fault.  Whether or not I correct inappropriate behavior is.

There are a range of ways to correct inappropriate behaviour.  As a child, a lot was explained to me and I was reasoned with a lot.  I had the utmost respect for my dad, who never said "Yes" or "No" without giving a darn good reason and being totally willing to stick to his guns.  If I had the slightest hint that something might cause him to be disappointed in me or cross at me, I would not do it.  That's not because of the type of child I was.  I was certainly no angel by any means.  But its a credit to my dad who is a wonderful parent. [Edit to add: no he never smacked me.  I had the utmost respect for him and still do.  So that is what *I* have as my standard of measure and what I aspire to as a parent.  As kids, aren't you told at school that "Violence doesnt solve anything"?  How often do we hear aggression begets aggresion?  I will be truly ashamed if I ever smack William.]

Liesje

I watch Super Nanny a lot and I see many of the same basic principles as training dogs.  Most of the time, the parents are totally forgetting to reward the child when s/he does things right.  Why would a child behave the way the parent wants if the parent never praises or spends time with the child besides hitting and yelling? 

Kudos   That has hit the nail on the proverbial for me and no mistake

yeah i like Super Nanny too. she is rather clever with some of her techniques. but the majority of the children and families she works with are are all the same... parents waiting until the last minute to punish their kids. they're inconsistent with punishments. they feel ANY punishment is wrong and abusive - even if its a corrective tone of voice - some of the parents dont have the time to spend with their kids.... some of the kids i've seen on that show are missing one of the parental figures (mom or dad is either gone all the time or dead)

i still believe to this day that my mom would have had an easier time raising me and my brother if she had remarried.... but (to bring another thread into this one) she was too hell bent on proving she was independent and didnt need a man for anything..... LUCKILY my brother chose to join the ROTC, and hang out with the resource officers instead of being lured in the other direction, along with his friends.. into a life of alcohol, drug and spousal abuse... his best friend has only recently gotten out of jail - before that he was drinking and sleeping around.. the situation that landed him in jail was an accusation of Date Rape....  but he was only acting the way he his dad acted.... and no he was never disciplined either unless it was with a fist on the odd occasion when he couldnt out run his dad...  

you can go into extremes with either method you choose.... once in a while i have to pop my oldest on the thigh because he is trying to drop a Tonka truck on his brother's head... sure it stings, but its more noise than anything. the majority of the time i can clap my hands really loud to get his attention, which is all he needs most of the time. Clap, Stop it now! .. and he stops.. moves off to do something else.... but if he is trying to hit his brother i want him to know that hitting will cause him pain as well. Right now he thinks its a hoot to see his brother fall over backwards and start crying....  he also thinks its funny to try to run him over with his toy car (which as a result he has lost privileges to for the time being because he fails to see that its dangerous)

the best way for to discipline either of the boys is to get their dad to do it. is Allen corrects them in that deep tone of voice they are devastated! no spanking needed! the fact that Mister Fun and Games is now Drill Srgt Buttwipe is enough for them lol

Chuffy

There are a range of ways to correct inappropriate behaviour.

I totally agree and I don't think I ever spanked my two youngest boys...but the oldest...now he was a challenge. 

DumDog

Right now he thinks its a hoot to see his brother fall over backwards and start crying....  he also thinks its funny to try to run him over with his toy car

You mean it isn't? 

Admin Note...

This is a highly charged topic but I would ask that all of you do not disappoint my faith in your ability to discuss it civilly and without insult.  The bickering stops now.

well... from a sibling POV yeah its freakin hilarious! i was always trying to hurt my big brother because he was a bully. he was drinking from the hose once so i turned the water up full blast... i swear water shot out of his eyes, ears and nose! his glasses went flying from the force of the water lol

i said i never got spanked by my mom, but i didnt say i never deserved to be spanked! if i had kids like myself and brother i'd have put them up for adoption! she would always threaten to ship us off to some foreign school, or some military academy OR make us live with our dad.... but that should have been a clue right there.... she had no method or recourse for wrong doing or even brattiness.... if we wanted to eat Super Chocolate Sugar Bombs for dinner... then thats what we ate! if we wanted to buy the latest blood and guts horror movie... then we did! and we ate Super Chocolate Sugar Bombs while watching the movie before bedtime (which was normally around midnight)

LMAO.  Yeah.  Dad threatened me with Culver Military Academy too.  Knowing what it costs today ($26,000 a year), I doubt he could have afforded it, but I took him seriously.

we knew she couldnt afford a special school, but the thought of living with our dad and RULES 24/7?? no thanks! we would behave for a little while lol

of course years later when we were moving and i had a choice between a private school or a public one but i wanted neither.. i told my mom i wanted to go live with my dad and go to school with my sisters and she got MAD! and she said NO NEVER! 

....i was briefly stunned that all those years she had only been bluffing...  wasnt sure what to do at that point lol

Interesting topic.

I don't have kids and it seems that I never will.

Growing up, we had corporal punishment, swift, ever ready, and designed to cause pain. As I got older and built up a tolerance to pain, the length of the punishment would increase. Keep on whipping until you hear 'em holler. After a while, I learned to holler in order to draw the whipping session to a close. Talking back usually earned a slap across the face. But even as an infant and toddler, there was punishment. I don't remember the incident, strangely enough, but my mom did. I was not old enough to walk, whenever that was. Mom had me with her in the gorcery store and I was crying or carrying on. One of her methods to quiet me was to pop me on the mouth. One time, accidently at the right angle and amount of force, she popped me and my lip got cut on my teeth. So now, I was screaming at the top of my lungs and spraying blood everywhere. My mom felt bad about that because she thought others would think of her as a bad mother. It was okay to pop your kid in the mouth, just don't draw blood. It's gauche. There were also grades of punishment. The first time might get a talking. The second might get a grounding or removal of privilege. 3rd brought a spanking. Other things demanded immediate high justice. lying got a belt spanking on the bare but, usually with me bent over and grabbing my ankles. So, then, I am taking the whipping on bare skin in a precarious and unbalanced position. At 3, I got spanked with a peach tree switch for playing on the hearth at Grandma's.

At 4, I got spanked with stirring spoon (it was handy) for not going to sleep when we were put to bed.

When I was 7, I got in trouble for playing in the dirt. After approximately 20 lashes (the numbers are a little hazy after some decades) I was asked if I would do it again. I figured I was a kid, kids play in dirt, and try to forget moments of pain, and answered "yes sir, probably so." So, step-father #1 gave me approximately another 20 lashes. He was a boiler tech 2c in the Navy and hard solid arms from a career of hard work and a really sturdy leather belt. I was wearing cotton briefs and dungarees (navy grade denim). And I was blistered and peeling and black and blue. Another reason I got so many is that I didn't holler through the first 15 or 20.

When I was 13, Mom, brother, and I lived in a govt. subsidized apartment. Mom worked 12 and 14 hours a day, brother and I went to school, both too young to work and we did house chores not for an allowance but because it needed to be done. Neither one of us had managed to get our step-grandpa a birthday present. During a visit to our grandparents, my grandmother spent 6 hours on the clock telling me just how low I was and that maybe I could aspire one day to be the dirt beneath a worm for failing to get grandpa a birthday present. He worked the B shift. She started in on me at 6 p.m. and wrapped it up at midnight because he would be home soon and she wanted to get dinner going.

When I was 16, my mother slapped me because I was giggling at the dinner table. Her hand hurt for 3 days but she never hit me again.

When I was in high school, the grandparents thought they would help me to get good grades by offering a reward. If I were to get at least 4 A's, they would get me the guitar and amp of my choosing. I got 5 A's and 1 B+. And no guitar or amp. My mom let me spend my savings and get one, anyway.

To this day, I say what I think or know, in spite of the trouble it causes me, at times.

I don't see my grandparents.

My mother (8-22-45 to 3-14-87) is someone I still respect, though I didn't always agree with her methods. Her house, her rules. My way or the highway. May God forgive you because I won't. Stand up for what you believe in. Be polite but don't take stuff off of anyone. Don't start fights but do finish them. When I am done with you, you will wish to God you had never met me. Do the right thing, not for glory or praise, but because it is the right thing to do. And, most valuable advice, in a marriage, you never win an argument. Try to see her side. If she was right, you look really smart for seeing that. If she was wrong, you look like a gentleman for being gracious.

I believe children need consistent guidelines and boundaries. I am not totally alien to the idea of spanking a child but I can't help but remember that violence is used when the parent can see no other options. OTOH, the big bad world doesn't care about time-outs and stern talkings-to. The big bad world can punish more severely than a few swats on the butt.