heard of a new "breed" today

ORIGINAL: heidandseek

ORIGINAL: Lilea 
Thats exactly why I said they would have to be willing to accept any combination of the traits of both breeds being mixed.

but what happens to the pups that aren't what they were suppose to be.  The one that is not cute or not bright.  Where does that pup end up.  You may have researched the two breeds and said ok I can handle all that but now I have the ugliest freakiest looking dog I have ever seen.  And to top it off he ended up with some recessive stuff that came on.  So where does that pup go?  The one the breeder couldn't sell because it ended up with the worst traits of both breeds?

Have you ever been to a puppy auction?  the place irresponsible breeders take their rejects?  it is very sad and no better than ending up at a shelter.

I read your post about spaying your dog and I was so proud of your decision.  It seemed like you truly understood the importance of spaying and neutering.   But now I am wondering why you spayed your dog?  You seem to be in support of byb's and mixes being bred which no one who respects ethical breeders could ever support.

I would be prepared to handle the ugliest freakiest looking dog I have ever seen.  Wouldnt you?  I would not love it any less.  If I was looking for something perfectly pretty then thats what I would go after.  I am in support of mixes, I do not support the way or the reasons why *most* of them are bred no.  But I also dont support the way and the reasons why a lot of pure breds are are bred either.  eople breed purebreds to supposedly better the breed.  Well I'm sorry I dont see as breeding hot dog dogs with super long bodies and stubby little legs so they are destined to have back problems as bettering the breed.  I don't see breeding dogs with bulgy eyes so they will problems with that as bettering the breed.  There are LOT of traits of purebred dogs that could be bred out to make them healthier.  I just don't see the reason for singling out mixed breeds.
ETA:  Have you seen the pics of my dog?  She IS kinda freaky looking   Most flat faced dogs are.

But let's play make believe.  You are a breeder and you are breeding pugs and doxies (remember this is hypothetical) and you had only one pup that turned out the way you thought or jqp thought it should.  The litter was a large litter and you have 5 ugly pups to find homes for and no one wants them.  So you try again and this time you end up with worse results.  You have no pups this time that fit the criteria you are looking for and the litter was larger this time you had 7.  People respond to the ad you put in the paper and still no takers.  So now you have 12 pups that are growing into dogs and eating up the profits you made on the one cute pup you had.   But you are not so easily discouraged so you are going to try again.  So you have one more shot at it and this time you have 5 pup and they are all cute as can be...but oh the health problems of one make it not sellable and the other 4 well three of them are male and jqp doesn't want males so you have to lower the price on them and the female well she is very ill tempered and aggressive so she needs to be put down but she is cute... so you sell her to jqp.  They want to try their own luck at breeding and succeed!  All of their pups are very cute very aggressive pups that all end up euthanized because of their behavior.

Accidents happen (though I don't find that a very good excuse...) but to intentionally breed mixed breeds or registered breed that aren't of the highest standards is IMO cruel and careless. 
 

There are LOT of traits of purebred dogs that could be bred out to make them healthier

You are right but who is going to do that?  Breeders who know genetics and study the breeds or byb's?  There are traits in certain breeds that I do not care for but than I stay away from those breeds also.  Which is also a very good reason to buy from a reputable breeder and do your homework to make sure you are getting a breed that you are aware of  in case of any pitfalls that may occur.

Thats exactly why I said they would have to be willing to accept any combination of the traits of both breeds being mixed

.

No amount of research can predict the possible combinations when mixing two different breeds, which is why responsible breeders would NEVER take that risk. With the amount of perfectly good family pets being euthanized everyday, there is no place for BYBs to be experimenting with "designer" breeds.

To be honest, I'm confused as to why you are so quick to defend a practice which could have caused your beloved dog to end up as nothing more than a corpse left at the dump. Your dog clearly came from a puppymill breeder who cared so little about their "designer" dogs that they shipped them off to a pet store. The pet store then sold it to an elderly lady who was unable to handle a puppy and got rid of it. Luckily you chose to adopt and NOT to buy from a BYB so your dog escaped a death sentence. But what do you think happened to your dog's siblings? By saying its ok for people to support these breeders because they're "willing to accept any combination of the traits of both breeds being mixed" you're ultimately supporting the euthanization of millions of dogs just like yours.

ORIGINAL: JRTmom

Thats exactly why I said they would have to be willing to accept any combination of the traits of both breeds being mixed

.

No amount of research can predict the possible combinations when mixing two different breeds, which is why responsible breeders would NEVER take that risk. With the amount of perfectly good family pets being euthanized everyday, there is no place for BYBs to be experimenting with "designer" breeds.

To be honest, I'm confused as to why you are so quick to defend a practice which could have caused your beloved dog to end up as nothing more than a corpse left at the dump. Your dog clearly came from a puppymill breeder who cared so little about their "designer" dogs that they shipped them off to a pet store. The pet store then sold it to an elderly lady who was unable to handle a puppy and got rid of it. Luckily you chose to adopt and NOT to buy from a BYB so your dog escaped a death sentence. But what do you think happened to your dog's siblings? By saying its ok for people to support these breeders because they're "willing to accept any combination of the traits of both breeds being mixed" you're ultimately supporting the euthanization of millions of dogs just like yours.

You assume too much.  My dogs siblings were all purchased and hopefully went to loving homes.  She was the last one left and was adopted at 3 and a half months.  She did not come from a puppymill and was not shipped anywhere.  The pet shop owner owns one of the parents.  I don't know what kind of conditions she was bred under and I cannot presume to pass judgement.  My dog never would have gotten a death sentence.  If you read my post about when should I spay my dog, you will see just how rare and small breed dog, purebred or mixed is around here.  Now, there is a feed store near my house that does purchase dogs from a puppy mill.  They can get you any kind of dog you want.  That is what I do not support.  Purebred dogs come from puppy mills  and irresponsible breeders too.  They wind up in shelters and as corpses.  I just don't see the need to single out a specific kind of dog.  And I really hate it when people say something to me like "I'm glad you decided to spay your dog, especially since it would have just been a mix breed anyway".  Why should that have anything at all to do with it??  There is absolutely nothing wrong with mixed breeds.  And "designer dogs" are not mutts.  They are mixed breeds.  It is not the same thing.  Mixed and mutt are completely different.  And for someone to ask me well then why did I even spay my dog if I like mixed breeds, that is just so ridiculous.  I spayed my dog because its healthier for her and it has nothing to do with this debate at all.
There are no small breeds purebred or mixed in the shelters in my area.  Now in my area there is an abundance of lab, lab mixes, pit bulls, pit mixes, and beagles in the shelters, so yeah I frown upon the local breeders of those types of dogs.  Maybe your area is overrun with these little mixed breeds and thats why you frown upon it.

ORIGINAL: heidandseek

There are LOT of traits of purebred dogs that could be bred out to make them healthier

You are right but who is going to do that?  Breeders who know genetics and study the breeds or byb's? 

Breeders who know genetics sure arent because they are too worried about adhering to the breeds physical "standard".  Who cares if its an unhealthy trait as long as its "show standard".  Yeah real responsible.
 

Breeders who know genetics sure arent because they are too worried about adhering to the breeds physical "standard". Who cares if its an unhealthy trait as long as its "show standard". Yeah real responsible.

 
What?  Really good breeders who are concerned about the breed breed for conformation, and temperment, and working ability and health. All together. That's why they pick their sires and dams so painstakingly, take their dogs all around the country to be bred to just the right other  dog, get all the health certifications for each dog they are planning on breeding and just in general spend so much time and effort doing that that dog breeding doesn't make them any money, they loose money doing it. I would never buy from a breeder who did not do all those things. This is why dog breeding is hard or at least should be if you're doing it right. 
 
Breeders who breed with only a physical standard in mind are not good breeders. They are crummy breeders who shouldn't be breeding either. You'll note that all the breed standards include a physical conformation portion and also a temperment and demenour portion. 

ORIGINAL: houndlove

Breeders who know genetics sure arent because they are too worried about adhering to the breeds physical "standard". Who cares if its an unhealthy trait as long as its "show standard". Yeah real responsible.

What?  Really good breeders who are concerned about the breed breed for conformation, and temperment, and working ability and health. All together. That's why they pick their sires and dams so painstakingly, take their dogs all around the country to be bred to just the right other  dog, get all the health certifications for each dog they are planning on breeding and just in general spend so much time and effort doing that that dog breeding doesn't make them any money, they loose money doing it. I would never buy from a breeder who did not do all those things. This is why dog breeding is hard or at least should be if you're doing it right. 

Breeders who breed with only a physical standard in mind are not good breeders. They are crummy breeders who shouldn't be breeding either. You'll note that all the breed standards include a physical conformation portion and also a temperment and demenour portion. 

Yep, and some of those "physical conformations" are unhealthy!

ORIGINAL: Lilea

ORIGINAL: heidandseek

There are LOT of traits of purebred dogs that could be bred out to make them healthier

You are right but who is going to do that?  Breeders who know genetics and study the breeds or byb's? 

Breeders who know genetics sure arent because they are too worried about adhering to the breeds physical "standard".  Who cares if its an unhealthy trait as long as its "show standard".  Yeah real responsible.

 
And now YOU'RE assuming too much.  Responsible breeders health test for genetic traits, which I can guarantee the vast (99% or so) majority of designers do not do.  Sure, BYB produce purebreds and so do puppy mills, but that's not what we're talking about.  You will be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find a decent breeder of designers that health tests. 
 
Mixed breed and mutt is the same thing.  It doesn't matter whether the dog was bred on purpose, is a known cross, or is an unknown cross, it's still mixed, a mutt, mongrel, whatever floats your boat.  Designer dogs are not breeds.  They're crosses given spiffy names and bred to sell.
 
It's horrible to quote dictionary.com, but...
 
mutt      /mʌt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Slang.



1.
a dog, esp. a mongrel.  mon·grel      /ˈmʌŋgrəl, ˈmɒŋ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muhng-gruhl, mong-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun



1.
a dog of mixed or indeterminate breed.



2.
any animal or plant resulting from the crossing of different breeds or varieties.



3.
any cross between different things, esp. if inharmonious or indiscriminate.

ORIGINAL: Laurelin_429

ORIGINAL: Lilea

ORIGINAL: heidandseek

There are LOT of traits of purebred dogs that could be bred out to make them healthier

You are right but who is going to do that?  Breeders who know genetics and study the breeds or byb's? 

Breeders who know genetics sure arent because they are too worried about adhering to the breeds physical "standard".  Who cares if its an unhealthy trait as long as its "show standard".  Yeah real responsible.

And now YOU'RE assuming too much.  Responsible breeders health test for genetic traits, which I can guarantee the vast (99% or so) majority of designers do not do.  Sure, BYB produce purebreds and so do puppy mills, but that's not what we're talking about.  You will be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find a decent breeder of designers that health tests. 

Mixed breed and mutt is the same thing.  It doesn't matter whether the dog was bred on purpose, is a known cross, or is an unknown cross, it's still mixed, a mutt, mongrel, whatever floats your boat.  Designer dogs are not breeds.  They're crosses given spiffy names and bred to sell.

It's horrible to quote dictionary.com, but...

mutt      /mʌt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Slang.



1.
a dog, esp. a mongrel.  mon·grel      /ˈmʌŋgrəl, ˈmɒŋ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muhng-gruhl, mong-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun



1.
a dog of mixed or indeterminate breed.



2.
any animal or plant resulting from the crossing of different breeds or varieties.



3.
any cross between different things, esp. if inharmonious or indiscriminate.

By your dictionary quote ANY dog is a mutt.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that a "designer dog"  is a breed.
Oh really am I just ASSUMING that so called responsible breeders specifically keep the elongated body trait in dachsunds?  Please correct if I'm wrong and they are actually trying to breed out that unhealthy trait instead of just making sure the dogs conform.
German Shepherd dogs are another breed who suffer needlessly because they are specifically bred to conform to unhealthy physical standards.  Those are just two examples.  I don't know if I will be posting in this thread anymore.  It is a good debate I am just getting tired of spending so much time at the computer and there are other threads I want to post in. 

ORIGINAL: Lilea

Oh really am I just ASSUMING that so called responsible breeders specifically keep the elongated body trait in dachsunds?  Please correct if I'm wrong and they are actually trying to breed out that unhealthy trait instead of just making sure the dogs conform.
German Shepherd dogs are another breed who suffer needlessly because they are specifically bred to conform to unhealthy physical standards.  Those are just two examples.  I don't know if I will be posting in this thread anymore.  It is a good debate I am just getting tired of spending so much time at the computer and there are other threads I want to post in. 

 
Actually, there's a reason that Dachshunds were bred to have an elongated body. It's because they were bred for badger hunting. Badgers live in underground tunnels/holes and they needed a dog that could easily get into a tunnel to chase out a badger.
 
With that said, if one isn't concerned about conformation, health testing and other things that go into responsible breeding then you might as well save your money and adopt a dog from a shelter(and yes, you can find little dogs in shelters or rescues. There's LOTS of them listed on [linkhttp://www.petfinder.com]Petfinder[/link]. Yeah, they may not be a block away but if you really want one, you can get one even if you have to travel). I feel that way regardless if the dog is purebreed or mixed.
 
Responsible breeding is a rarity even among purebreeds. Until puppy buyers demand higher quality there will always be irresponsible breeders who will churn out poorly bred dogs in exchange for your cash.

Good description about the original purpose of dachshunds..... by the way if you translate the name it gives you a clue!
 
While I am heavily against deliberately breeding mixes as a marketing ploy for cash for all the good reasons stated so far on the thread, Lilea is right about some breeds being bred for "type" to the point where it is detrimental to their health.  If you look at a picture of a working dachshund from say, 100 years ago, yes you will see the elongated body and shortish legs, but in much healthier proportions.  Breeders have exaggerated these traits far beyond reason in recent years.  A great many "excellent" Dachshunds would be rubbish at their original purpose because the distinctive traits that once aided them have been exaggerated to the point where the dog is no longer agile enough to perform the task.  This is sad and wrong IMO.  And it is being done even by "responsible" breeders - people well respected in the dog world and successful in the show community.  I feel sorry even for "excellent specimens of the breed" because I just think, that is not a normal or reasonable shape for a dog!  Add to that the pet obesity problem and the poor thing is doomed to be a walking backache for all of it's life.  It's cruel.  Dachshunds are just one example of this....there are others.

ORIGINAL: Lilea
You assume too much.  

You are the one that is assuming every pup born is purchased.  They definitely are not... so that was the point of my hypothetical.  What happens to those pups that aren't sold? 

ORIGINAL: Lilea
My dogs siblings were all purchased and hopefully went to loving homes.

HOPEFULLY?  a good breeder does the research and calls references to insure the best home possible for their pups.  Do they always succeed? No nothing in this world is ever without failure but those pups will stand a much better chance.
 
The whole point of this discussion with you imo, was to help you open your eyes with your heart.  It is not happening...you have dug in your heels.  It is the thinking of people like you, that keep encouraging byb's whether it is a breeder of purebreds or mutts.  It makes no difference to me if the dogs are pb or mutts...if they are not to a breed standard they should not be bred. 
 
I have never supported a byb nor will I ever no matter what they are selling.  If I was looking for a good pet I would seek out a rescue or a shelter. 
 
Since I had a little (10) one who wanted a dog she could carry instead of the giants that I love, I did my research on toy size dogs.  Found that I prefered the Chihuahua and than I started looking for a reputable breeder.  I happened to get very lucky and find one in my area without having to drive hundreds of miles to pick her up.  There are lots of byb's breeding Chihuahua's in my area.  Those dogs have confirmation issues, most obvious is the deerhead, had not done any testing on the pups and were willing to let them go at 6 - 8 weeks.  Way entirely to young for a toy breed.  I did not pay any more for here than the byb's wanted and way less than some of the "commercial" breeders were asking. 
 
I would suggest you go visit your local kill shelter and look in those dogs eyes and tell them that their breeders had every right to breed their parents....

ORIGINAL: fuzzdomestic

It's almost amazing how stupid people can be.  I saw a picture of a "Sharpett" the other day.  It's a Bassett with a Shar-pei.

That has got to be one of THE worst mixes I've ever heard of. [] What a genetic nightmare- both with health issues and the combination of the two breed's temperaments does not seem like a good one. [&o]

Did anyone watch Ellen yesterday, she just bought a yorkiepoo.
And was rattling on about all the designer breeds but calling them new breeds, she is clueless. I love her and I know she loves animals I am going to email  her this link.
What do you think?

All of the explinations here are awesome. However, I don't think Lilea cares very much.

Sometimes, the views of people cannot be changed.[&o]
No matter how many facts are presented.