How do you decide...(Ratsicles)

As much as we try, we can't control everything.....you say you did your best, and with that you have to do what is best for him, now....re-homing him would probably be best. I rescued a dog before that was not very good around all my dogs. he was adopted to an older couple with no other animals, that worked out great, I would think he would do wonderfully in a home without other animals, he would get all the attention, maybe that is what he needs...........good luck.......

Ratsicles

I can't live like this anymore. Ogre is running and ruining our lives... I should have listened to myself...I was right.

You may not get 100% consensus on this (although I HOPE I'm wrong) and there might be some people that disapprove of your decision no matter what you do.  When you spill your guts as you have on a forum, there's the chance that some people will stand in judgment. I only say this because I have done just that. I hope I'm right that this forum is different and the people can see how hard you tried and accept that you really did your very best to make this work.

I, for one, support you 100%. It's clear that you have tried everything and MORE and sometimes it just doesn't work. Sometimes we just can't cross that chasm between man and beast to come to an understanding.

To answer your question, "How do you decide"?... In my experience, I just knew. It was only the fear of other people's criticisms that kept me from doing something sooner. My mistake was in trying to gain approval of other people after the decision was already made and before I took action. The dog in my experience has been happily re-homed since then.

It sounds to me like your decision is already made. There's only one thing left to do that's in Ogre's best interest, in my opinion. And that's to find him a home where he doesn't have the constant temptation of something that he cannot have.

Good luck to you. I'm with you 100%.
 

Ratsicles

...When it's time to throw in the towel?

 

We've been trying for months, but I can't live like this anymore. Ogre is running and ruining our lives.

When, and where, do I draw the line?

I just don't think we are the right situation for Ogre.

I'm beginning to realize that my home probably isn't that place.

Based on these statements in your post, I think that deep down you already know that it's time to throw in the towel. You've already made your decision. It's just a matter of following through and actually doing something that will break your heart.

Your heart will heal if you know that everyone, including him, will be better off if he is rehomed. 

Have you contacted Rachel Peeples DVM, there in your state? She helps out Heart Of Dixie Akita rescue. I again...think you need to talk with her...and if necessary bring Ogre to meet her and see what she thinks should be done.

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/GA361.html

http://www.geocities.com/rapeeples/

Ratsicles

It is no life for him, and no life for us.

In a nutshell that sentence says it all.   You've tried and tried again, and nobody can fault you for giving everyone involved a better life.   I can tell that you feel somewhat guilty, but DON'T -- you've done 1000x more than 1000 others would have.  You helped him overcome his fear aggression because of all your hard work -- and thats HUGH.  I know in my heart that there's a place for him where everyone can be happy again.   

I'm so sorry it hasn't worked out as you had hoped.  I'll be thinking about you and Ogre.

Ratsicles

  It sounds like you have gone the long hard road and have done everything you can think of to help this dog adjust. You have not failed, you say the dog is great now with people and kids and he has come far from when you began, he is just having issues with your household and with prey animals. I believe you can re-home this dog and it would most likely be best for you and best for him. Placing a dog into just the right home is something to take pride in and is not something that you should be discouraged by. You have given it your best to try and make your home THE home and it isn't working. I symathize with you and know first hand how sometimes we can beat ourselves up when in fact we have done nothing wrong. Most people would not even be in the place that you are in, most would have given up long ago, most would have sought out the easiest solution once they had given up, which is shelter or PTS. My hat is off to you for going the long hard road, I wish you all the best in finding the right home for Ogre. I will keep him in my thoughts and prayers that the perfect home will make itself known to you.

  Not every dog fits into every household. I wish you all the best and hope that you will keep us informed of your progress.

I believe I expressed my opinion on this situation, quite succinctly, when you brought it up some time ago.  You didn't like it much, but still...

It is clear to me, as it appears clear to you, you cannot manage this dog.  There is no shame in that.  The shame is in not being able to admit it and in not doing anything about it.  Good luck to you.

FourIsCompany

To answer your question, "How do you decide"?... In my experience, I just knew. It was only the fear of other people's criticisms that kept me from doing something sooner. My mistake was in trying to gain approval of other people after the decision was already made and before I took action. The dog in my experience has been happily re-homed since then.

I never rehomed but I take in foster dogs that have been given up for lesser reasons than Ratsicles.  I am committed to the dog and so far I have not failed one.  Everyone has different capacities and each one places a weight on what is considered inappropiate/intolerable behavior.  My Great Dane name Drizzle has Ratsicle's kill list and mauling list beat by a long shot.  I worked through this but I had to give up bringing in new dogs or other animals into my home so I can focus.  My pet parrot was killed by a foster dog and as upsetting as it was, I did not blame the dog or take action because of this natural prey behavior. 

I agree that given what is chosen to be disclosed, this dog should be rehomed and a committment/promise/focus should be made to place the dog in the best possible home.  That would be some committment because it is a lot of work and a lot of time to place a dog. 

I would also suggest that Ratsicle recontact the behaviorist/trainer and have them say the words to rehome the dog as the final straw of what all can be done was done.  None of this crapola, its your decision...they are paid to advise.

Wow!  Ogre sounds like he was actually ok until your move.  He must have some kind of anxiety over that.  I truely am sorry to hear how he's killed your other pets, it's so sad.  I actually saw an episode on the dog whisperer who visited a couple who's lab killed a couple of their chickens and they ended up hiring a dog trainer who worked with them and their dog giving the dog activities to do, to basically satisfy his lab instincts.  Akita's, frankly I don't know enough of that breed to know their characteristics, if their hunters, herders, etc. 

I hope you can find a resolution that will benefit both you, your family & Ogre.  Best of Luck!!!

You've tried it all ... and as we've discussed before, I don't think there is any shame in re-homing a dog when you've tried your best.

I may be unusual in my feelings, but I honestly think one of the key ingredients in the decision to 'rehome' an animal MUST BE the dog's own personality.  Sometimes I really think we humans think "re-training" HAS to be the complete answer.  Sometimes I think, instead, we should be thinking more about that animal's personality and pure happiness. 

I think, at this point, you can ...without any feeling of failure ... re-home him simply because you do not 'suit' each other.  I truly think it's wrong on MANY levels, for the humans and other animals in the house to lead diminished lives AND for the animal in question to lead a diminished unhappy life simply because "rehoming" feels like failure.

 It's not.

I'm divorced -- if you want to get really technical about it, I 'rehomed' an ex-husband.  He needed it.  He remarried within 3 months of leaving me.  He got happier.  I got happier. 

Maybe this gets a bit fringy with "animal rights" but I honestly believe that once you've tried (and lord knows, Brit, YOU HAVE TRIED) and you've done all the right things as far as prevention, containment, schedule-re-adjusting, etc. and NO ONE is happy -- I think you have to move to re-homing just as a logical and acceptable next step.  "rescue" should not mean that EVERYONE is unhappy even tho all have tried.

However -- I will say this.  Take a VERY high road with him.  Just because he "seems" to get along ok with your parent's other dogs, and such -- I would re-home him in a place where he is an 'only' dog, in the city in a very very low stress, settled home.  And I would disclose pretty much everything to the new guardians.

I wouldn't re-home him to a family that is young and not settled, nor to a family who may decide to "change their minds" and have children.  An older, single person or even an older couple who won't likely have grandchildren moving in ...

Even if he's always 'seemed' to be good with kids -- he's got a HUGE prey drive when stressed -- and I would simply take the high road and give him REST.  Not a home where he constantly has to be handled, managed or "kept apart". 

does this make sense?  I'm not saying he's not a good dog -- gosh, I have a friend I wish had him right now (but she's states and states away).  But I would try to place him in the easiest or all easy homes -- and that's honestly not hard.  He doesn't wet, he doesn't chew, he's not a howler -- just needs a very settled, unchanging home.  Shoot, there are a lot of people out there who WANT a settled dog. 

I honestly don't think this is a 'failure' situation -- I think this is just a big huge personality clash.  If my family decided to move way out in the boonies with all sorts of critters and TOO MUCH ROOM around, I'd go pretty darned stark raving mad too.  I am a CITY girl.  I want at least 5 McDonalds and Burger King's within a 3 mile radius, and I DO NOT want to hear crickets at night!!  If you put me out in the wide-opened spaces I'd go start raving nuts within a week because I DO NOT LIKE SPACE!!!!!  I want to go get into my car and DRIVE there -- fast!

I'm being a little funny Brit -- simply because I don't think it's bad dog or bad owner.  I think it's an exemplary owner who has tried harder than anyone else EVER would.  Take a deep breath, and give you and the dog a promotion.   It's not really a decision -- it's honestly logical at this point.

 All I know is that you have given it all you have and then some.  It's not your fault.  If deep down you know that Ogre will be happier somewhere else, then I say let him go.  I don't know what else I can say.  You have tried your best but if Ogre is not happy, it's best to try to find him a new place where he can be happy.  I am very sorry about the loss of your rats and other animals.  I know you're basically stuck between a rock and a hard place.  You know in your heart what is best for you and Ogre.  Don't feel bad that it's come to this.  Nothing in life is guaranteed and nothing is easy but I know that you will make the right choice.  Good Luck and I am behind you 100% on whatever you may choose.

I think you've made the decision deep down.

I agree with the previous posters as well. You've given it your all for Ogre. You've tried.  He's just not compatible for your pack and home.  Much as it hurts our hearts to rehome a pet, sometimes it's the best thing for them, you know? 

Would definitely place him either with a rescue or someone with no kids/pets in a quiet home.  And then, not feel guilty about it! :)

Good luck, I think it will be the best decision for all of you.

TIffani

i agree about Cesar... lets see what he makes of Ogre.... there was an episode on the other day where he got a lab/pit mix to be calm and quiet next to a bunny and a guinea pig... where minutes before it was trying to kill them.

but... thats a long shot, getting his help lol but what does it hurt to try?

anyway i have a few of my own questions (having moved SEVERAL times in my 24 years of life - with and without dogs)

besides the obvious changes... what routines have changed for him and could you possibly bring them back? walking at certain times of day?

scheduled play time to blow off steam? if you know the breed then you know its a hunting dog.... Ogre is turning into a primal dog. like you said about a kid in a candy store... the temptation is far too much. Also you feed raw, correct? maybe he likes the diet a little too much. maybe thats what old timers mean when they say it will ruin a dog if it tastes blood.

so.. yeah my main questions are playtime and what type of play do you do with him?

When i had Frank, my dobie/aussie/pitty, i had him for three years while in highschool and never had any serious problems with him except one (he and some doggy friends stampeded a huge herd of cattle and they tore down a fence (wasnt MUCH of a fence really so no surprise there.. just a wonder the cows hadnt done it themselves) and he was shot in the rear end by the owner of said cows - he had a couple of buckshot and wasnt even noticeable when it happened except for a couple of BBs you could feel under the skin) when my mom and i moved from there we were in a more residential area... there were still cows... but these people didnt know Frank and they had video surveillance in their fields... Frank went from happy to depressed. his attitude got much worse as time went on. Back when he had been shot he developed a fear of thunder or loud noises as a result... but he always could come inside the house during a storm... but at this new place we werent home as often.. but it had a HUGE front porch that was walled in... Not good enough for Dear Franky... he CHEWED through a door!! and if that wasnt good enough for him, he broke a window trying to get inside. then he started digging up the whole yard, tearing through the fence, and tore up the metal decoration/bars on a screen door... it would have been one thing if the house was ours.. but we were renting, and the land lady's sister lived next door.... And then i had a prospect to move into the city.... but i couldnt have my dogs and my mom wouldnt keep them for me. i could either STAY home and live with my mom, my dogs, and my horse and rats for the rest of my life in the middle of nowhere.. or i could rehome them with friends and start a life of my own with hopes of getting them back some day... and thats what i opted for. Franky went to live with my cousin on a 200 acre farm.... which was perfect. beyond perfect. That was similar to the place where Franky grew up... 200 acres of fields and forest, plus a family that was home 24/7..... the job i had at the time meant that i was away from home a week at a time.. and my mom didnt do jack squat with the dogs except feed them and fuss at them.

if i hadnt been moving to the city i would have been able to do more with Franky. or if i had been able to bring Frank with me it would have been even better.. but circumstances wouldnt allow it. i know some people here would call me selfish for rehoming Frank.... but i dont really care. i need to have a life too and as much as i love my animals i cant let my WHOLE world revolve around them. my happiness (and yours) matters as much as theirs does.

In saying that..... if you think the best solution is to rehome him then go for it. You will be happier with the load off your shoulders, and he will be happier without all the tasty morsels sitting just within his reach. but thats the easiest way. I say it will take longer to fix his issues... much longer than three months. i would start from scratch and find a new routine for him.... Kaydee has a similar problem with prey animals. So we keep her in the backyard with Ben where there is no chance that she can get anywhere near the ducks and rabbits. if they get loose and wander into her space... then thats one dog we dont have to feed that night.. but we dont have that temptation anywhere near her.

Honestly i think he can be saved and still live with you, buts its going to be a ton of work (isnt it always though?) its not going to be easy but it IS possible to have a happy Ogre and small animals. the constant confinement, as we know, is frustrating to a dog... so i say have some scheduled time where its just you and Ogre in a special room in the house with no other pets.