Taking food from your dog's mouth

I have to say, I am impressed how a lot of you trained your dogs!



Not to change the subject, but what 'respect' is to a dog? When owners say that my dog lets me do X because she respects me, this sounds so abstract to me. Maybe I am looking for a recipe to fix all my problems

If I was a dog, I might solute "Respect!", but then warn my owner You're not pulling this bone out my mouth... GRRRRRRR. Would this then mean my dog doesn't respect me? What I am saying is that my interpretation of what's respectful (in human communication) is not what my dog believes respect is.

Maybe some people are just naturally good at feeling their dogs' "culture" [8|]


[]

Tina... that is a good question and when I first read Bones Would Rain from the Sky it was all a little intangible for me what she was writing about having a good 'relationship' with your dog. It's something you get a better feel for the better you know your dog and also the more you know what to look for in dog body language. Individual dogs will show trust or respect in different ways... it's a kind of "know it when you see it" thing I think.
 
However, I would disagree with those who frame it as "I can do this because my dog respects me" - I'd say I can do it because my dog trusts me. And that comes from, among other things, respect going both ways. You have to build trust in your dog by showing him/her over time that you will be firm but fair, have expectations but not more than he can handle, learn how to bridge the divide between what's normal/okay for a dog and what's normal/okay for a human owner.
 
In some cases because of a dog's inherited temperament and/or early experiences in life, they're way more likely to guard from you even if in general they do trust you. You can still work on it but again it's about respecting the dog for who he is now and not trying to force him beyond what he can handle at any given time.

Excellent post houndlove and I agree 100% on all counts.
 
Having skim read through a lot of the posts there seems to be quite a bit of emphasis on "I must be able to do this with my dog, it could save their life".  I really have not come across any situations where I would need to "take" something out of my dogs mouth to save his life.  I have come across situations where I have been very very glad I taught "trade" as a puppy and the dog will willingly give me anything if I ask for it.  But not that many where I would have to take something - such as something getting stuck for example.  In which case I think it's not an issue of respect or trust because if the dog is panicking or in pain or is struggling to breathe then he may well still bite you regardless of how respectful or trusting he is - or how much training he has had or how relaxed he is about it normally.  I can't help thinking that this "need to be able to take things because it could save his life" is being overblown a teensy wee bit.  The vast majority of dogs I know are relaxed and not guardy at all, but their recall could do with some work..... that is far more essential and life saving!

ORIGINAL: TinaK

Does anyone ever pulls objects/food/etc. out of your dog's mouth? In one of the books I read ("Bones would fall from the sky"), a trainer notes that once something is in your dog's mouth, you should respect that, and never attempt to take it; a lower status dog can defend its treasure from a higher status dog - it's a canine "etiquette".

I also hear opposing views, to the effect that an owner should always be able to walk up to their dog, and pull whatever a dog has out of its mouth. No exchanges. What do you think?

My wallet respectfully disagrees.  Do you have any idea how many trips to the vet we would have taken by now if I could remove forign objects from Jack's mouth?  He will pick up ANYTHING (and I'm not exaggerating here) small enough to fit in his mouth, although he's getting better.

To say that you should never take something from your dogs mouth is simply unrealistic.  I am very pleased that the author's enviroment is so clean and her dogs are so perfectly trained that she never has to do this, but I doubt most of the rest of us are so lucky.  A dog should learn to accept this practice, IMHO.

I really have not come across any situations where I would need to "take" something out of my dogs mouth to save his life.

 
Think compressed rawhide pieces, treats, perhaps toy piece becoming lodged in his throat.  Aside from obstruction worries should it make it through the throat, it could turn and block the airway on the way down.  I have pulled rawhide from the the throats of at least a half dozen other dogs, who were choking and gagging trying to get it up and couldn't dislodge it.  It happens with non-contraband stuff, just imagine the dogs mentioned earlier who will scarf anything they find.

I really have not come across any situations where I would need to "take" something out of my dogs mouth to save his life. I have come across situations where I have been very very glad I taught "trade" as a puppy and the dog will willingly give me anything if I ask for it. But not that many where I would have to take something - such as something getting stuck for example. In which case I think it's not an issue of respect or trust because if the dog is panicking or in pain or is struggling to breathe then he may well still bite you regardless of how respectful or trusting he is - or how much training he has had or how relaxed he is about it normally. I can't help thinking that this "need to be able to take things because it could save his life" is being overblown a teensy wee bit.

A few months ago my Ginger dog got a goat bone lodged against the roof of her mouth. As she crunched her RMB she somehow got a piece stuck up there. I shudder to think how interesting it would be to try to dislodge a very high value item from a dog's mouth if the dog weren't OK with me taking it from them. As it was, she allowed me to open her mouth and fiddle until I got it dislodged, and then removed it completly.

In another situation, I was opening a Day-Quil packet for myself when the opening process shot one of the pills straight up in the air. My Bree dog caught it in MID AIR. She wouldn't drop it because the other dogs were there (while she doesn't guard from humans, she will from other dogs), so I calmly quietly asked her to let me take it, to which I put my fingers in her mouth and took it. Tylenol *can* kill a dog - and she's pretty small.

Deer bones splinter and we have to keep a very close eye on the dogs when they have those.  And, yep, snagging a splinter out of the mouth could very well save a life.  Sometimes things happen sooooo fast that you don't have time to spit out "leave it" before a falling or flying item is scarfed.  If it's a majorly dangerous item I will say drop it and give them maybe a tenth of a second to do so before my hand goes in a mouth.

I really have not come across any situations where I would need to "take" something out of my dogs mouth to save his life.

Your dog doesn't have a whole lot of allergies, does he?

Nope, we are very lucky.  We are also quite scrupulous about not leaving things they are not allowed to have within easy reach. 
 
Just to clarify - I'm not saying there are not times when you would need to put your hand in the dogs mouth to save his life.  I am saying: if it's not stuck, then use "drop it", if it is stuck then however relaxed and well trained he is isn't necessarily going to help if he is in pain/panicking/struggling to breathe. 
 
If it's not stuck, but potentially dangerous, "drop it" is still the first thing I'd go for - and if I had to intervene and remove it because the dog didn't respond, I wouldn't think "whew! aren't I lucky the dog is so good he will let me do that?"  I would think "I obviously need to work more on that one...."  But that's just me. 
 
I do know personally a great many owners who are very proud of how relaxed and non possessive their dog is - and many of those same dogs are perfectly dreadful at recall which the owners don't seem to think is a problem.  I think the bottom line is, if you are relaxed about it when you have to take items away (and if the dog hasn't already been taught to resource guard by people frequently snatching things) then the dog is likely to be the same.  Whereas a really good recall in any situation can be very hard to get right.  Within the circle of dog people I know, too much emphasis is placed on the one rather than the other (that's not just here, thats dog owners I know in general, not on line)

I have this to say about that.....we live out in the boonies surrounded by 500+ acres of woods and fields.  I can call my dogs off any sort of running or flying wildlife, so I would say that they have rock solid recall.  When a pill sorter gets dropped and dozens of pills go rolling everywhere, well, that gets just a tiny bit tense with six dogs hanging around.  Yes, I tell them to leave it and send them from the room immediately, but being intelligent animals they KNOW that it's tough for me to enforce IMMEDIATE compliance while trying to watch all six of them and prevent any of them from snagging a pill or two as it rolls or bounces across the floor.
 
I normally am also very careful not to leave the things that they can't have within reach.  However, I am human, and recently have been a very stressed human, and sometimes stuff just happens.  A pill sorter drops, a plate breaks and pieces (covered in something tasty) go flying......stuff happens.
 
I don't believe that teaching a dog to give up an item teaches them to resource guard, but then, that's just my personal experience through a lot of years and a lot of dogs.  Mine learn very young that mom can have any danged thing she asks for and most likely they'll get it right back, or something better.

No, teaching a dog to give up items they have won't result in resource guarding - I didn't suggest this and I don't think anyone else did.... must have got wires crossed somewhere.  As I said in above post, that's just my approach and my opinion.  I'm not trying to change anyones mind, just contributing to the discussion.

when you have to take items away (and if the dog hasn't already been taught to resource guard by people frequently snatching things)
 
That statement is what I was responding to.  Sounded to me like you were referring to teaching a dog to give up items....but, I've been wrong before.

Weeell, kind of, but I was thinking more of the people who employ bully boy tactics to do it, or overdo it because they think they are making a point rather than respecting the dog and using kind and positive methods.

Ah, but see if you would have said THAT, then my feathers wouldn't have gotten ruffled.....

I can pick up her marrow bone, toy or dish without getting any kind of upset reaction from her.

That's how it is here.  I've never seen resource guarding, but it's not something I do on a daily basis either.  I have taken up bones or toys and there was no reaction at all.  So, I gave it right back to him.  I feel confident that I can take something out of his mouth if need be.
 
As a matter of fact, I believe I took that bison bone off Kato's legs after I took this picture and never even gave it a thought.  I threw it on a pillow and he got up and followed me back in the house.