why i didn't buy from a "reputable" breeder

From my experience:
 
For me finding a good breeder was hard but by the time I had made many phone calls and e-mails I found 3 that were willing to talk to me about gifting me with a puppy.  It was not easy and I had a few who just turned me away because I had never owned that breed before .  Yes it was a lot of work but if you do it right you will find a breeder.
 
What really helped me is I asked each breeder a million questions before they even had a chance to ask me.  They seemed to like that I was more than prepared and did my research.  As far as cost, I never asked about what the cost was until I decided I liked that breeder.  Then after I had my breeders lines up and could compare all the ones who I was happy with and they were happy with me I was able to decide which breeder I wanted to go with.  If I did not want a show dog I would have not gone threw all that trouble and would have just gone to the shelter or rescue. 
 
To me buying a dog is not about compairing prices as much as it is about compairing breeders.  I would much rather pay more for a breeder who can be by my side the dogs entier life then give me a dog and let me fend on my own.
 
 
 

Take my comment as a good one. I also agree to your other comment ( once a dog is born whether it be from a byb, a puppy mill, or a breeder ) - they are all special.
 
I just gotta learn how to do the quote thing here. Less typing.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

And sometimes the BEST way to find the BEST dog...even a specific breed...is to simply NOT LOOK...lol! Stop....don't whine, don't email, don't even think about it. I'll be darned if it happens that way...someone who knows someone who's rehoming this dog or that...just hang around, absorb, learn...but don't actively pursue and sometimes that does the trick! []
 
Sometimes, it's ka....

Ya know, I think finding a life partner often works best that way, human or furman!

xebby:

For me finding a good breeder was hard but by the time I had made many phone calls and e-mails I found 3 that were willing to talk to me about gifting me with a puppy. It was not easy and I had a few who just turned me away because I had never owned that breed before .

 
xebby...i think the key to our "disagreement" is in your last line "...because i had never owned that breed before"...but obviously you did have a dog before...and were familiar with reasons why it might be better to go with a certain type of breeder, and knew important questions to ask...
 
a novice wouldn't know why to waste his time with an annoying breeder (besides that i personally think a good number of them are actually half nuts).

first I'll admit I did not read all the posts on this thread - I started a new job this week and I'm tired but I wanted to express my view on this
 
My Sadie dog - best dog in the world (aside from all yours of course []) came from about the same situation you are talking about.
We couldn't find a puppy when we were looking for one. The shelter here had different rules back then. At that time they were a kill shelter and puppies were terribly hard to find there. People avoided taking animals there due to the high PTS rate (still didn't help the spay/neuter mind set). The only way to find a puppy around here was either through an oops litter, someone who didn't care enough to prevent their dog from having litter after litter (and obviously had no problem finding homes since the shelter never had pups), or a BYB.
We wanted a GSD and we found one in our local shopper paper. Went to check out the remaining pup, paid the $100 fee for her and brought her home. This woman never even asked us for references.
She did state though if any health issues cropped up in the first 3 months she'd take Sadie back...upon checking w/my vet I found out what that meant. It meant death for Sadie so when we heard her hips clicking at 3 months of age we dealt with it. When I confronted this woman about it her first comment was "she didn't get HD from my dogs!!!! My dogs hips are clear" yet when probed she couldn't produce any documentation of that and since she used my vet they couldn't either.
Sadie lived to be nearly 12 years old but was PLAGUED with genetic health issues. The money I spent on her didn't bother me - she was a member of my family and I would do for any member of my family like I did for her. I'd work 2 jobs if I had to in order to provide sufficient medical care for my pets BUT what she physically had to go through her entire life simply wasn't fair.
And yet this woman continued to let her dogs pump out pups. And I met owners of some of those litters after Sadie - they ALL had health issues.
Yeah we all want puppies, we all want to find a breeder we can deal with, we all want a "bargain".
But don't we want healthy dog?
What's more important what we WANT (not need WANT) or a dog with a bright healthy painfree future - which is simply not something that is guaranteed from breeders who simply want to sell a product versus breeders who see their dogs/pups as living creatures who deserve a great future.

Also, want to talk about health and behavioral problems? Pet store puppies are notoriously way undersocialized, come complete with massive health problems both genetic and as a result of poor living conditions, and are frequently impossible to housetrain because they learned early on that eliminating where you sleep is the only option and they got used to it.
 
ByBred dogs also can have these same issues, depending on who was doing the breeding. If it was someone's "outside dog" then I'd be willing to bet that undersocialization would be a problem there as well, along with the health issues.

Here's what I have to say....

I think breeders are entirely justified in the way they handle things.  It's a life and they want to make sure it's taken care of well.  Think about giving one of your babies to a total stranger, you'd want to do everything to make sure this home is serious. 

I've gotten dogs from just about every place you can name, minus a pet store.  Shack was from a friend of my mom's whose dog had an 'oops' litter.  He couldn't find anywhere for the runt to go so he was taking him to the pound and somehow my mom ended up relieving him of Shack.  (She can't say no to a cute face)  Then later, we got Nikki from some people whose shelties had a litter.  I don't know if it was an intentional breeding, or an accident, but they seemed nice enough.  They weren't horrible people or anything, they just didn't know anything about dogs.  Nikki's been very healthy besides being a little chubby and arthritic in her old age.  I wouldn't trade her for the world, I've just come to realize I probably didn't get her from the best place.  We've never heard back from the people we got her from and I'd have no clue how to find them, whereas with the other dogs I know their breeders are there to help whenever we need it.  The deal is, you learn from these things.  I'd never get a dog from anything other than a reputable breeder or a rescue now.  Most people on this forum weren't born with all the dog knowledge they have, it's come to them through experience with dogs. 

I don't think getting a dog should be easy.  Not everyone can deal with a dog.  Breeders need to make sure you're not an impulsive buyer.  With Trey, the breeder even had us keep him a weekend while she was showing to make sure he and Nikki got along since Trey was a grown dog.  With beau, we spoke to the breeder on the phone a few times, then we went to meet her twice.  She told us all about her dogs, showed us the mother pictures of the father, talked a lot about socialization that she does.  (She takes puppies to retirement homes)  She wanted to know how many dogs we have, and about our home, etc etc.  Then she asked us to come visit the puppies again before she'd sell them.  I still talk to her as does the rest of my family almost every week.  We meet up with her and her dogs, and she came a lot to watch beau show.   She helps us all the time.  Sure you want a dog right then and there, but you have to understand that the breeders don't want to place a puppy in a bad home.  If you're not willing to go through that little of trouble to do interviews etc then how are you going to be ready to put in the effort to raise a puppy?  That's a whole lot more you have to do. 

I don't think people should be condescending to an amature who's not fully educated, but I do think you should listen to most of these people.  You learn, and besides, many of them have been there before. 

Also, it's a pet peeve of mine, but just because someone advocates only responsible breeders or shelters, it doesn't make them a so called 'purebred snob'. 

ORIGINAL: faramir
.people want to see prices, and they don't want attitude...

It's a dog not a couch[>:]

If you want prices, the shelter will tell you prices right away and they are way less expensive than a breeder.  Oh but I forgot, you wanted a designer dog. 

I'm sorry, but people like you really urch me.

xebby...i think the key to our "disagreement" is in your last line "...because i had never owned that breed before"...but obviously you did have a dog before...and were familiar with reasons why it might be better to go with a certain type of breeder, and knew important questions to ask...

a novice wouldn't know why to waste his time with an annoying breeder (besides that i personally think a good number of them are actually half nuts).

I was mostly just talking about my experience...  This will be my first show dog and when I started my search I was clueless to what to look for but  I continued and read the books and learned what I needed to know, also many people on this forum helped direct me to what I needed to ask.If a breeder doesn't want to sell me a dog I want to know why so I can be ready for the next breeder I talk to.  It just takes time to find them.  I think a lot of people want the dog "right now" and don't want to be put on a waiting list or get the run around so they settle for whatever they find first.

I see what your talking about now, someone who doesn't know exactly what they are suppose to look for when choosing a breeder.  It's hard and if I was doing my search a few years back before I was as knowledgeable as I am now about dogs I would probably have been turned off for the same reasons you mentioned.  I dont' want to put balme on anyone but the more a person knows the more they put others down for not being at the level as them.  That is why the good breeders sound so up tight about their dogs, they know their breeds inside and out so they can be a bit picky about where they are placed.

faramir, I don't know what breed you have, but I think everyone knows what breed I have.  Imagine how much work I had to go through to get my gang.  I researched the breed for over a year BEFORE I decided it was the right breed....then there was 8 months of researching breeders.  I chose a breeder for all the reasons you chose NOT to.  I wanted a breeder that cared enough about her pups that she would want to be involved with me on  a personal basis.  I wanted her to ask a million and one questions.  I wanted her to be so nosy I couldn't stand it.  That told me that the breeder cared about her pups.

The original lady I contacted ended up passing away days after the litter was whelped.  The owner of the dam contacted me (mind you I had sent my deposit to her in December) about 2 or 3 weeks after the pups were born.  This is a lady I had never talked to before in my life.  I had to answer all the questions and interviews again.  (Complete with letters of recommendation from at least 2 friends and a veterinarian.)

I never felt like my life was under the microscope for anything other than keeping the best interests of the puppy in mind.  I still talk to Xerxes breeder, and his breeders mentor on a weekly basis.  I didn't get just a dog.  I got a dog, a mentor, a friend and through that relationship I got another mentor.  Through that second mentor I got Gaia.  Without the scrutiny of the original breeder none of this would have happened.

So for the very reasons that you did NOT get a dog from a reputable breeder...I got my dogs from a reputable breeder.  It can be frustrating, but what's more frustrating to a breeder is to have their dogs end up abused, neglected, in shelters and suffering from all sorts of maladies.

In the Pharaoh Hound world, thus far in this past year we have had at least 3 rescues...one was put into the shelter because she was "too hyper" another was abused physically and kept on a chain outside (possibly as a bait dog) and the third was my - dropped off at a kill shelter with instructions to destroy her.  Those reasons are the reasons that PH breeders and people are overprotective of their breed. 
.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

If someone like Gina can't or won't provide me with a puppy, can you really criticize me for turning to a BYB or pet store?
 
Absolutely I can [] Just as you could critisize ME for now selling to you lol...
 
Because shelters and rescues are an option before a BYB, always...and if you cannot pass muster at a shelter, or rescue....maybe you should really think about why you want that breed at all [] Maybe your focus should be on changing whatever reason you were turned down, ...but that'd take admitting you have something to work on....or admit they might have a point, do more research and think about different breeds.
 
If you CAN pass muster at a shelter, they simply don't have the exact breed or age or size you want, maybe you should get on a waiting list at a shelter for JUST what you want and WAIT.
 
Patience would get you in more doors than acting sore about someone's input on why a breed might not be a good fit...so seldom do I see anyone...get over being offended and say "you may think so...but I will come to the shows or trials and learn everything I can, join the lists to learn still more, be open minded and absorb all I can...eventually  I bet you will change your mind about me []"

Well actually, if I was 'turned down' by a breeder, I would definately relook at my breed choice as I understand that a breeder would have a better understanding of the suitability than I would as a first time dog owner. However in many cases it is not simply a case of not being a siutable owner. It is a case of not having enough pups to fill the requests. Right? So if I am deemed worthy of a breeders pup and my deposit is accepted, but there are only 3 pups in the litter, I'm just out of luck.

As far as resues and shelters, as I stated before, rightly or wrongly, I am just not comfortable enough to go that route. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent online reading all the resue and shelter bios. I consider myself to be a very good dog owner, but I know my limitations. Can I retrain or manage a dog with issues? I honestly don't know, so I'm not going to chance it.

Gina, I may just have misinterpreted your tone, but I want to assure you that I have nothing but respect for you personally and breeders in general. My dogs breeder was fantastic. My post was not about my own experience just that I understand that sometimes getting a dog from a breeder can be very difficult and a resue is not always an option.

If I were to change my mind about you, it would have to be from positive to negative!

If I were to go to a breeder, I would expect to pay between $900 and $1500 dollars. That's just about a given. And if  I don't have the budget to think about that, then I should avoid going to a breeder. If I am going to pay that much, then it will be purebred, with pedigree and health certs. Otherwise, my other best option is the shelter ( cheapest) or breed rescue (more expensive but more likely purebred and recent medical).
 
Yes, some breeders are snooty. There are snooty people in every facet of life and business, not just dog breeding. Others are tired of having to take back dogs or find them in shelters because the original owner bit off more than they can chew. So, they want to make sure future owners are committed.
 
Proper breeding is done with the histories of both parents in mind, health certs, purpose of the breeding and it's market value, etc.
 
If you are happy with your dog, so be it.

jojo:  It's a dog not a couch[>:] ....'m sorry, but people like you really urch me.

 
jojo...take a look at the pictures of sparky posted in the photo section, and tell me if i treat him like a couch.
 
i don't take my couch to the beach almost every morning, nor do i take it to a friends house in the afternoon, or for a relaxing stroll at night....i don't take my couch on vacation with me and give it swimming lessons...nor do i take a nap with my couch, while laying on another couch...my couch doesn't rest its head on my shoulder while i'm driving, or give me a foot bath when i wake up...i do not share my meals with my couch...


 

gina: 

Maybe your focus should be on changing whatever reason you were turned down, ...but that'd take admitting you have something to work on....or admit they might have a point, do more research and think about different breeds.

 
well, since sparky thinks that i am the greatest dog owner of all time (he told me so), and i think he is the ultimate canine since the beginning of creation, i might also consider the possibility that many dog breeders just think they know more about people than they really do...

Oh, Joel how I missed ye.