What makes dogs in Manhattan so well behaved?

This is an interesting thread. I thought seriously about moving to NYC last year and I realized that my dog is a big reason I didn't go. He is *not* mellow and unfazed by life like a city dog. He was a shelter dog who came with manifestly insufficient socialization. He's got leash aggression issues, and strangers scare him when he is leashed. I worry that the big city would be too much for him. When I'm in the city I try to imagine him with me, and I have horrifying daydreams about him freaking out by too much stimulation, people and dogs in his personal space. Of course my biggest fear is that he would bite someone.

But sometimes I think, well, he'd just have to adjust and get used to it, wouldn't he? Dogs are pretty adaptable. Maybe it would help his fears if he had to live in that environment.

I just don't know how he would react. What do you think? He's 2 years old.

 
Acesmom- My 2 1/2 year old greyhound Prudence is a total spook when it comes to strangers and strange dogs. She was a quivering wreck and her previous owner returned her after 5 months because she wasn't getting any better and was literally almost backing out of her collar when she saw a strange person or dog approaching.
 
DH and I took her because we knew that she was unadoptable in her present state and would require a ton of work and we wanted her to have the best chance possible for a happy life. So, when we got her as of her 2nd day she was forced to walk in heavily populated areas. There is a lake near us that is used very heavily by bikers, joggers, mom's with strollers and dogs. None of these people are even remotely interested in stopping and petting her because they are all doing their own thing.  This made it the perfect environment for her to get use to all the stimuli.
 
Within 2 weeks she was 70% better and she went from a dog who was terrified to go outside on a  walk to being the first one out the door.[]
 
She will probably never be 100% better and lord help us when she encounters her first dog off leash running up to her, but she is controllable and seems happy now and it has only been about 2 1/2 months since we got her.
 
After boarding her for a week with no walks, she regressed a little, but after her 3rd walk, she is now pretty much back to where is was a week or so ago. 
I agree with houndlove that little steps are the way to go (like going to central park in "off" hours when there are fewer people and then building your way up to more stimuli).
 
Thank goodness that the people at the rescue know us and trust that we can make it work, or there would be no way that this dog would have been released to us since we have no yard and she has to go on a walk everytime she has to potty. Honestly though, the worst thing would have been for her to be in a home with a yard where she was never forced to interact with strangers and dogs.   
 
If I could, I would move to NYC  in a heartbeat and Prudence would just have to adjust and I think with a little time she would adjust very well to city living.  
 

Yep, it's called good old socialization.  You can mold any dog into a perfect Canine citizen if you imprint the pup early on.  Before the age of 16 weeks is the best time to get a pup to imprint. 
 
We had the same thing when we were kids, everyone just let their dogs run at large.  It was normal back then.  Pups, dogs, intact males, intact females, there were never any problems, no dog fights either.  We kids always had at least 10-15 dogs with us at all times, and at elementary school you always had a pack of dogs waiting outside to play at recess etc.
 
People tend to forget the vital importance of socializing their pups. You get people who lock their pups away until they are past the perfect imprint stage.
 
 
   

ORIGINAL: brookcove

I have a good friend who lived in Philly with her (yes, working bred) BC.  She did do a lot with him but there were times when basically all he got was "normal" dog stuff - walks and playing at the park. 

I'm not sure if you agree w/ her having a BC in the city or not from this quote (sorry, English is my second language & I don't pick things up sometimes.) What do you think? I've pretty much given up on having a BC in my lifetime 'cause I'm a total city person & I've always read that BCs need to be working dogs. DH and I are pretty active, him an avid runner, me loving spending time w/ dogs in a dog run, but it's not same as herding sheep, etc. Two cents, please?

I don't think there is any kind of dog (BC's included) that CAN'T live in the city.  It is all about what the person is willing to do to meet the dog's particular needs.  Wesley is a BC mix (not as intense as the typical BC, but fairly intense and very smart and high energy).  He requires a lot of exercise as well as mental stimulation - but, with plenty of off leash time in parks, hiking when we get out of the city, herding sheep (a little more than an hour outside the city) once a week or so and training, games, interactive toys etc. for mental stimulation, he is a happy dog.  I don't think he would be any happier if we had plenty of land.  It has been said here before (I think by Anne) that the reason we have all the dog sports (agility, fly ball, rally etc.) is to give working dogs a job that doesn't require a farm, hunting etc.  If you want a BC and you understand the amount of exercise, mental stimulation and interaction with you that a BC requires, IMO, you should get a BC, even living in the city...

I'm not sure if you agree w/ her having a BC in the city or not from this quote (sorry, English is my second language & I don't pick things up sometimes.) What do you think? I've pretty much given up on having a BC in my lifetime 'cause I'm a total city person & I've always read that BCs need to be working dogs. DH and I are pretty active, him an avid runner, me loving spending time w/ dogs in a dog run, but it's not same as herding sheep, etc. Two cents, please?

 
Stanleysmom- I think Brookcove is saying that BC can be OK in the city if you give them enough to do. I get that from this quote:
 
When I founded Carolina Border Collie Rescue with a friend of mine, I lived in a rented 800 square foot house and she lived in a 400 sqft apartment with no yard.  both of us had two Border collies and I had two other dogs too.  You'd better believe we never turned anyone down ONLY because they didn't have a yard. 
 
 

I think you hit the nail on the head, and proved it by just how many dogs you saw. Dogs living there are *forced* to interact nicely with eachother - there is no other option for them.

Thanks schleide for the encouragement! It's not an immediate concern (not in at least 7-8 years, I hope!) but I'm very happy to hear about BCs thriving in the city!
 
And thanks for JJMom, reading comprehension can be tricky in this language []

Yes, sorry I wasn't clear.  It doesn't matter where you live, what matters is the commitment you have to your dog's needs.  Border collies like being with their folks, they like a regular schedule, and they like to be trained.  I knew a guy who had a nicely bred Border collie who did nothing with him but hang out with him, play frisbee, and teach him weird tricks that only young bachelors would appreciate.  The thing was that he shared every free moment with this dog,  He DID have a normal nine-to-five job but when he got home it was all about the dog.  He went to informal dog training stuff, agility/flyball/frisbee/herding, if there was free beer to be had (there was at the group I trained with) - but he never joined a formal dog training club. 

I know a lot of people like that, actually.  The problem with Border collies comes when they are in homes where they are shut out of family life.  Some dogs, bred without regard to proper temperament, can also be snappy, but the main problem we see is frustration and boredom.

Name a major city and I can tell you about someone who lives there with one or more Border collies as companions.  They are from all walks of life, some do formal dog sports, some even travel to herding lessons (I know a trainer about two hours from most of NYC, for instance), but many just share their lives with their dog in the way that city people can and most suburbanites or even rural folks don't understand.  The thing they have in common is that if their dog needs something, they will adjust their lifestyle to meet that need.

It doesn't matter where you live, what matters is the commitment you have to your dog's needs. Border collies like being with their folks, they like a regular schedule, and they like to be trained. I knew a guy who had a nicely bred Border collie who did nothing with him but hang out with him, play frisbee, and teach him weird tricks that only young bachelors would appreciate. The thing was that he shared every free moment with this dog, He DID have a normal nine-to-five job but when he got home it was all about the dog.

SO true! Well put Brookcove! []   You can have any dog as long as you are willing to make the commitement to their happiness and well being on a daily basis!

Most folks don't realize the commitement that is needed.We decided to NOT have greyhounds for 2 years after our last two passed away. I was starting to travel with my job and we felt like we needed some time  to do a lot of things we hadn't allowed ourselves to due over the past few years.  We had a  very long talk when it was time to get two more pups because it really does change your life.  I feel our lives are enriched by having dogs, but the  going to plays, museums and restaurants is decreased drastically.

We work 8+ hours a day but the moment we are home the evening belongs to the dogs. I only volunteer at the greyhound rescue when they have enough crates for me to bring my pups too and weekends are spent moderating our time between the dogs and other stuff we need to get done.
We made the decision to get an RV recently so we could still do some traveling and get away on weekends but we could do so with the dogs.  Most people don't get the fact that dogs are a huge commitement of your time and energy.  That is why I love i-dog because there are so many folks who are like minded to us.   []

same thing that makes them so well behaved in Europe. It is the expectation placed on the owners and the owners train to meet it. Dont meet the expectation, expect considerable social pressure. That and the fact they like the results of the training. Heck they may even be better attuned to their dogs through that training. My assumption is the bad dogs (and there usually are some, are not out where public censure can occur)

This is exactly right, and it has nothing to do with formal obedience training. NYC is all about sharing your space and resources with others, and there are expectations placed on your behavior whenever you share space. Having an unruly dog in NYC is just too huge an imposition on others, and people will absolutely let you know that you are out of line.

(FWIW, I think this is a very healthy way to live, not just with dogs but in general--the city rules!)

Thanks Brookcove! I have a feeling I'd find those tricks very entertaining as well [8D]

NYC is all about sharing your space and resources with others, and there are expectations placed on your behavior whenever you share space. Having an unruly dog in NYC is just too huge an imposition on others, and people will absolutely let you know that you are out of line.

No doubt!
I heard the fine for not picking up poop in the city is $450!!!!

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06

No doubt!
I heard the fine for not picking up poop in the city is $450!!!!

I still see many people in Central Park who don't pick up their poops at night time! [:@] There's this guy who *never* leashes his Shepherds, even on the street, and is *always* on his cell phone the entire time he "walks" his dogs... which means, of course, he never once bends down to pick up poop! Obviously very well-behaved dogs, but it's still worrisome.

I still see many people in Central Park who don't pick up their poops at night time!

I hate that![sm=banghead002.gif]

so disrespectful! Besides, picking up the poop helps you to tell how your pups health is. I always want to be the one to pick up the poop. I give DH the dog and I grab the poop bags! []

Stanley'smom, IMO you should pull a New Yorker and tell him he needs to clean up his poo. He's ruining it for everyone else, and spreading disease!