What makes dogs in Manhattan so well behaved?

Wow, I've never been in an extremly large city at all, maybe a few in CA but never any kind of city anywhere close to NY. My dogs growing up have always been "farm dogs", hearder who would go crazy if all the cows suddenly dissapeard. My Giz and Georgia were the first two indoor dogs I ever owned and people around here think it rather stange that I allow larger dogs to live inside with me. It's even stanger that I actuly walk my dogs around the neighborhood in my small town. When I drive up to the only city in my state there are a lot more dog owners like me who I can relate to. I'm not saying country dogs have a harder life then city dogs but I find it stange that they are so differnt.

Even when I'm in the small city in my state my dog is different from the city dogs. She plays differnt in the parks then they do, she behaves differntly. Some city people will look at me like I don't have controll over my dog where inface I do, she is just a country dog. In Gizzy's dog class some will ask me what's wrong with my dog, well she is just not use to being around that many dogs at one time and she is not use to tight spaces like that. The sounds in a city at first would freak her out and she would start barking like crazy because she had no idea what everything was. The first time she saw a bus drive next to me she growled at it because she had no clue what to think. When I first started taking Giz into the city for her training it was difficult for her to adjust because she had never been to a place like that before. I couldn't even imagin taking her to NY, I'm even afrade to go there.

same thing that makes them so well behaved in Europe.  It is the expectation placed on the owners and the owners train to meet it.  Dont meet the expectation, expect considerable social pressure.  That and the fact they like the results of the training.  Heck they may even be better attuned to their dogs through that training.  My assumption is the bad dogs (and there usually are some, are not out where public censure can occur)

Christine, I laughed at your CGC comment! I'm in a CGC class right now and there's a marked difference between the people who live in the city and those who are in the suburbs. The suburb people (and I think a couple even dropped out of the class) were just like, wait, where and how am I supposed to train for this during the week? Their normal routine is a walk around the subdivision and playing in a private fenced yard, and that's not going to cut it for CGC-level social skills.
 
I really try to educate people probably to a pushy degree about how size does not matter for apartment/townhouse living. There are large breeds who do great in apartments or small houses, and there are small breeds who are completely not cut out for it. I get very upset seeing all the large dogs languishing in shelters because people think that they have to have a huge house and acres of land in order to have a large dog. I have no understanding of how house size has anything to do with dog size (my dogs don't actually play in the house generally--they just lay around), and if you can meet your dog's exercise and stimulation requirements through walks and dog sports, you don't need much of a yard. We have a teeny-weeny yard that's really only good for pottying, but we live just a few blocks from our city's "Central Park" and that's way better than a dog running around the same fenced yard day after day after day. When we go to the park, it's always something new, with new smells and new dogs and new people.
 
A lot of coonhound rescues definately would not adopt to us. Coonhounds aren't supposed to be good city dogs, but I think that's largely just the expectation placed on them. They're loud, they can't walk well on leashes, they can't be left alone, they can't be trained for recall, etc etc etc.  Place the expectation of good city dog behavior on them, show them how it's done, and they live up to it. I sometimes even think that being in the city is easier for Marlowe because there's a lot less wildlife for him to be tempted to hunt. In the country, I can imagine he'd be going apesh!t 24/7 over all the smells/sounds/sights.

ORIGINAL: mrv

same thing that makes them so well behaved in Europe.  It is the expectation placed on the owners and the owners train to meet it.  Dont meet the expectation, expect considerable social pressure.  That and the fact they like the results of the training.  Heck they may even be better attuned to their dogs through that training.  My assumption is the bad dogs (and there usually are some, are not out where public censure can occur)

 
If you're referring to formal training this is not my experience at all.  I've never had a dog in the city that's been formally trained, Slick didn't even go to puppy class.  I've never personally known anyone to take their dog to classes either (although I think Stella may have done something?).   It's just not the norm here and it's often not even feasible.  There are a number of reputable trainers here who offer group classes, but unless you live very close to them, it's just not an option.  Remember, we don't have cars!  Unless it's within reasonable walking distance, it's not happening.  In fact, it's one of the things that I don't like about living here.  There is no place to do Agility, Flyball, Rally, etc. for me.  I have a friend in Brooklyn who teaches Agility and would LOVE to take Slick, but it's not possible.
 
Oh and jjsmom!  I'm out and about in my pajamas every day/night..  I forget that these things are odd to "normal" people!  (aka tourists).  You could walk down the street wearing a grass skirt and coconuts and nobody (locals) would look twice.  

I agree- people who just get one dog in the suburbs and expect it to exercise and entertain itself in their backyard are deluding themselves. We have a huge yard, and if we just stick one dog out there he/she sure doesn't exercise on her own, unless the squirrels are feeling suicidal. Now, if we put multiple dogs out they will spend some time playing together, but really, the only way to exercise them in the yard is for a human to go out there with a frisbee. And you sure can't socialize a dog in your backyard even if you regularly have big parties. You have to take the time and effort to take the dog places on a regular basis.
That said, I do think dogs need regular off-leash running time. If your dog is always in the house or on a leash, there is no way that dog is getting adequate exercise, even if you do walk the dog regularly. Dog parks are a must in cities.

jjsmom, I forgot to tell you that I do see a fair amount of Greyhounds here.  There are two that live right on my block (adopted together) and they are lovely!  Very sweet boys.  I also have a good friend that has one (also a retired racer) who is a doll.  They actually seem to be a breed well suited for city/apartment life, no? 
 

ORIGINAL: houndlove
I really try to educate people probably to a pushy degree about how size does not matter for apartment/townhouse living. There are large breeds who do great in apartments or small houses, and there are small breeds who are completely not cut out for it.

 
Man do I ever agree with this!  SO many misconceptions.. 
 

nope didnt mention formal training at all

This is an interesting thread.  I thought seriously about moving to NYC last year and I realized that my dog is a big reason I didn't go.  He is *not* mellow and unfazed by life like a city dog.  He was a shelter dog who came with manifestly insufficient socialization.  He's got leash aggression issues, and strangers scare him when he is leashed.  I worry that the big city would be too much for him.  When I'm in the city I try to imagine him with me, and I have horrifying daydreams about him freaking out by too much stimulation, people and dogs in his personal space.  Of course my biggest fear is that he would bite someone. 
 
But sometimes I think, well, he'd just have to adjust and get used to it, wouldn't he?  Dogs are pretty adaptable.  Maybe it would help his fears if he had to live in that environment. 
 
I just don't know how he would react.  What do you think?  He's 2 years old. 

acesmom, I can only offer my own experience, but maybe you can take something from it.
 
We got Conrad from a pound when we lived in a very rural area. He lived with us there for 3 years before we moved to the big city. He doesn't have aggression issues at all, but he is (was) very shy, unconfident and anxious, and we were concerned with how he'd react to constantly being around strange people and places, with all kinds of loud noises and unpredictable humans.
 
A couple of months before we moved, we began Operation City Dog. We started taking Conrad into our little town to walk around on sidewalks, sit at the outside cafe while we had coffee, and generally just be out and about in public. He definately suffered from being sort of sequestered on our property for so long, even though there were other dogs on our little peninsula that he could socialize with--there weren't many people around, and it's people he's uncertain about. If there was a street fair or something in town, we'd take Conrad and walk around through the crowd with him. We started taking him on a daily walk to get him used to that rather than just running around on our property.
 
He's made a great adjustment to the city. He still doesn't like it when people reach for him rather than waiting for him to go to them, but he doesn't immediately hide behind me anymore when it happens--he just takes a step back until he feels more comfortable. He's much more confident with loud noises, though he'll still startle at a really loud sound, but then again, so do I. He's a bit watchdoggier than I'd prefer when he's at home, but even that has gotten better in the past couple of months. When we first moved, I didn't think he'd be able to pass the CGC test, so I never tried him for it, but his personality has changed so much since then that I think at this point it would probably be a complete breeze for him.
 
So maybe some field trips are in order for you and Ace. I think going from Alaska to NYC would be more than your average dog could handle without prior preperation, but I you can try things in stages, do some experiments in safe, controlled situations and see how it goes. Dogs can surprise you sometimes with their adaptability, as long as they have a steady stream of love, leadership and understanding.

That is so cool! Props to you and other NYC dogowners! I think its great that Slick is allowed in stores with you!

ORIGINAL: acesmom

But sometimes I think, well, he'd just have to adjust and get used to it, wouldn't he?  Dogs are pretty adaptable.  Maybe it would help his fears if he had to live in that environment. 

I just don't know how he would react.  What do you think?  He's 2 years old. 

 
I've rescued all my dogs except Slick and fostered heavily as well.  All the dogs I've had since I've lived here came from the country or the suburbs, many from country/suburb shelters.   They ALL adjusted beautifully.  Maybe I was just lucky, I don't know.  Or maybe (I'm totally just thinking aloud here) - when the world around is totally crazy and you have your trusted leader to guide you through it, your confidence increases and you overcome your fears!  Sounds too simple.  You need a test run or two.  I've done it many times cold turkey, straight from a Long Island shelter into NYC with no problems at all.  I've had lots of city specific obstacles (4 flight walk-up with a dog who'd never seen stairs!) but nothing major.  
 
Conrad is the perfect role model!!!

I find this true to a high degree in Boston too!  If you walk around town (especially certain areas like the South End of Boston), every third person seems to have one or more dogs.  These dogs are accustomed to all sorts of noises, people, other dogs etc.  Not every dog is perfectly behaved, but nearly all of them walk fairly nicely on a leash, can go into or wait outside stores where their person is running errands without a scene, and get plenty of exercise.
 
I think the whole issue of rescues and shelters not adopting to folks who don't have big, fenced yards is silly.  Our rescue asked us what we would do to exercise Wes, not whether we had a large enclosed yard...  I would venture to say that on average, city people exercise and socialize their dogs more than the average suburban dog owner - not because they are any better or nicer or anything like that - rather, because they have no choice.  For city folks, leash walks around plenty of people and dogs, dog parks, doggy-daycares, group walks and playgroups are the reality because they are our only option!
 
I actually shudder to think of the disaster it would have been for Wesley if we were suburban when we got him.  Because of his problems with strangers, I know that out of fear, I would have just kept him away from people, because I could.  Which would have made the problem much much worse.  Instead, I have been forced to continually work on it with him, so he is getting better and better! 
 
He is from Tennessee, he used to jump at every noise, growl and every cone, garbage, car backfiring etc.  We stayed calm and if it was a noise, ignored it, if it was a thing, we had him sit and look at us, treated and praised for that and then went and examined the "bad thing" proclaimed it ok, allowed Wesley to then examine - if he did so without growling etc., and kept moving...  He no longer reacts to almost anything - I think most dogs can get used to the noises etc. of a big city...

jjsmom, I forgot to tell you that I do see a fair amount of Greyhounds here. There are two that live right on my block (adopted together) and they are lovely! Very sweet boys. I also have a good friend that has one (also a retired racer) who is a doll. They actually seem to be a breed well suited for city/apartment life, no?

 
I wish I had seen some on my visit! They really are very suited to apt/ condo living. I bet during the winter though, the NYC greyhounds are wearing sweaters and coats! Even in California it gets too cool for their little body fat so they have to be covered up! []  
 
 

I wish all the rescues in NJ/PA/CT that denied us simply b/c we lived in the city could see this thread. "No yard? Nope, sorry." Heard that so many times even though we live literally half a block from Central Park! Grr. Sorry, I'm still bitter

 
I would be bitter too. [:@]  It is very unfortunate because so many folks who have a yard figure "their pups don't need a walk, that is what a yard is for", when in truth the poor pups need far more exercise and many people aren't bothering to go out there and play with the dog, they just figure the dog will do it himself.
 
 It is very unfortuante that so many people don't walk more with their pets because it is good not only for the dog, but for the human as well. Having a dog makes me get my lazy butt off the couch (or the computer chair []) and take the dogs out on a walk. Even on days I don't want to do it, I am very happy afterwards that I did.
 
  

I have a good friend who lived in Philly with her (yes, working bred) BC.  She did do a lot with him but there were times when basically all he got was "normal" dog stuff - walks and playing at the park.  He's not what you'd call a model of a well-adjusted dog, since he has some issues (this is my friend who works with Karen Overall) - but most of the time he's a very cool dog and extremely well behaved.

She did feel he needed a canine buddy, and she also wanted a competitive trial dog, so she imported a dog from Wales.  This female BC had never been off the farm in Wales except to go to sheepdog competitions.  Fly took to city life like a champ.

When my friend finished her graduate degree and looked around for work, she desperately hoped to find a more rural area to live.  However, she ended up moving to yet another urban area - the SFO Bay Area.  Her dogs both are perfectly happy there, too.

When I founded Carolina Border Collie Rescue with a friend of mine, I lived in a rented 800 square foot house and she lived in a 400 sqft apartment with no yard.  both of us had two Border collies and I had two other dogs too.  You'd better believe we never turned anyone down ONLY because they didn't have a yard.  We always said we almost preferred these homes, because what Border collies crave above all else is a regular schedule and it was easy to impress on these adoptive parents the importance of regular exercise!