Breeding bulldogs? Ethical?

ORIGINAL: gaylemarie

lol it was sarcasm, and i think you are confusing my reference with kevorkian. the island of dr. moreau was a movie about a crazy doctor that crossbred different species to make these freakish creatures.

 
Ha ha your exactly right, I knew the name but got it mixed up with the wrong dr.  anyway I see your point and the humor in it[]

I think Gina's answer was very sensible.

I mentioned this on the cropping thread, but I thought I'd come and mention it here as well, seeing as this is where it really belonged. Australian bulldog enthusiasts have been developing what they call the Aussie bulldog. It can breed naturally and has far fewer overall health problems. While I don't think it's necessarily right to decide whether breeding dogs with inherent health problems is ethical or not, it's nice to know that just doing the best with what we've got is not the only option open to us for continuing the breed. I would personally leave the English bulldogs to the people who want to preserve the breed for whatever reason they like, but that doesn't mean I think they're wrong to continue bringing bulldogs into the world. I would pick a breed that can breed normally because I choose not to be a party to breeding dogs that can't. If I wanted a bulldog, I'd get an Aussie bulldog to support breeders in their efforts to make bulldogs healthier.

I remember Dr. Moreau! That movie was so bizarre it made my head spin. []

Ruffian, this thread is about bulldogs, not cropping and docking. There's another thread for that, as you well know. Don't make me hijack this one! []

It's funny you ask because I was wondering the same thing.
 
There was a lady at the dog park also who was telling me about all the health issues Bulldogs have. She said that she could only let her dog play for 15 minutes then he HAD to get home or he would overheat, she had to constantly give him water in those 15 minutes as well. She told me all about the c-sections, which I am assuming is one of the reasons why they are so expensive and so rare (you rarely ever find them in shelters/rescues).
 
I am not sure if it is true or not but I also hear they have to be bred by AI, that they can not breed naturally because it is too hard on them.
 
 

Umm...natural selection has NO place in dog breeding by definiton a man made breed of ANY kind in ANY species is unnatural. If you folks have your way then all dogs would looks the same...like Dingos. Lunvtzus, your breed has been DRASTICALLY altered from what is "natural" (natural being the Dingo type pariah archetype) just as much as the Bulldog.
 
I think as this is a dog board we need to be careful not to single out one breed as having so many problems they should go away because as I say...you guys sound like the anti's on the PB boards...ALL PB are this or have this temeprament....they should ALL go.
 
This thread kinda makes me sad.

 Gina! Nuff' said.

I am finding this to be a very, very interesting thread.  I have my own ideas about this particular subject and they are somewhat close to what Gina is saying.  I cannot say that I entirely agree with how the breed has been "improved" and needs various human intervention to have successful mating and whelping, however, this is a breed that no longer has to perform the job for which it was created.
 
 

Well, I just have to say that this is a case of breeding for conformation trumping breeding for work. If a breed can no longer physically do the work it was originally bred for, what is the point of it all anymore? Just to play science fair with genetics?

ORIGINAL: houndlove

Well, I just have to say that this is a case of breeding for conformation trumping breeding for work. If a breed can no longer physically do the work it was originally bred for, what is the point of it all anymore? Just to play science fair with genetics?

 
Actually, from what I've seen the breed CAN still do the work it was bred for- even the ones that aren't bred for conformation-but they don't HAVE to do that job anymore.

Well, yeah Xerxes, that's another topic entirely for another thread, but I agree. They don't have a job anymore, and I'd say that at least 50% of the breeds out there don't have jobs anymore. I'm not sure where I stand on that particular issue because if we only kept around breeds with jobs we'd be over-run by the companion breeds and a smattering of herding and gun dogs.
 
But if the breed standard for conformation for any dog requires the dog to suffer and die young, maybe the conformation standard should be changed to something a bit healthier? I don't know. I know very little about conformation showing, but I hate to see dogs suffer.

Xerxes, yep.
 
Instead of asking 'why would anyone want to breed/own a dog that looks/acts like that'....I usually hug my own dog and tell her I'm glad she's mine...lol!
 
Different strokes fer different folks...HEY (looking down) I'm even wearing my Gary Coleman shirt this a.m. haha!
 

Gina,

If I ever get into breeding, and that's a big "if" I'll not breed dogs that don't have a dual championship.  Form AND function.  Even if my hounds don't have to perform the rabbit hunting and killing that they were made for, they should still be capable of chasing the lure and also should be outstanding examples of the breed standard.
 
ETA: whachyoutalkin'bout Gina? Different Strokes was one of my faves growing up!

Xerxes yes a Bulldog would still be able to hang onto a tied bulls nose....but it's a bit smaller now so it might get tossed about a bit more. Might not have the drive to do it now either as the temperament has been somewhat mellowed.
 
Houndlove many standards require things that people might view as detrimental...but the problem is that it's subjective person to person what is detrimental. If you use age for example all giant breeds are made to die young because of their standard. If you use size then many toy breeds are unhealthy because they are too small...if you use head type then French Bulldogs, Bulldogs, Pugs, Pekes, Affens, Brussells Griffons, etc all brachiocephalic breeds are being made unhealthier by their standards...body style...Dachs, Corgis, Bassetts, PBGV's, Chows, etc are made unhealthier, drop eared breeds unhealthier as they are more prone to ear infections, etc....again...slippery slope and we're back to the "perfect archetypical Pariah dog".
 
Suffering for a dog is being without a human to love it and care for it...suffering is neglect and abuse...suffering is tieing out and leaving it, etc. Most people with Bulldogs I know, show and otherwise...LOVE their dogs and spend vast amounts of money ensuring the dogs are NOT suffering...so I really can't see the issue. I think suffering in a dog has little to do with their standard and everything to do with the person that owns it.

Xerxes, that is a great goal when breeding, but there a few breeds that isnt always possible, I would say that bulldogs fall into this catagory.  Their basic function now is companion animal, and they do that well, they dont run away, anyone can exercize one, they make great apartment dogs for that reason alone.  They have a big bark though.  And I think one of the best things is that they cant lick their butts, probably the only breed I wouldnt mind doggie kisses from, LOL.  Unfortuatly all the things that make them they way they are also make them very poor obediance dogs.  I am not saying they cant it just isnt common.  When you have hounds there are sports that are designed for them, just as there is for retrieving dogs, and pointers.  When you have other breeds that were bred to say kill animals AKC and CanKC don't really have special trials for them. 

The english bulldog is an unhealthy caricature of what a bulldog should be; we should let the "breed" die out. The "true" bulldog type is being maintained under different names these days. Look at the american bulldog.

See I'm lucky Xerxes...most people think Beagles are bred to be cute and sit on the couch(shhh!)....which mine EXCEL at..lmbo.
 
I've often said..the very people that SHOULD be breeding, often don't breed because it's hard to settle their ethics square against the realities of dog breeding. They do rescue or they have pets..they know so much about the breed, and have such reverence for it...that they cannot imagine having to grade/place pups or breed a litter when so many other BYB's are out there doing the same..etc. It's a dilemma many breeds face I think. I think your breed needs people like you just like many other breeds do....so there's my input! []