Breeding bulldogs? Ethical?

"Bulldog" is a mighty wide term. I'm going to take a guess that you're referring to the English Bulldog. They also have a plethora of health issues, and generally cannot mate naturally. They have to have AI.

I do not believe that it's ethical to breed them. I also don't believe that it's ok to breed Dachshunds, when they have such an obvious defect.

According to the AKC they are just registered as "bulldog" but yes I am refering to the English Bulldogs.
[linkhttp://www.akc.org/breeds/bulldog/index.cfm]http://www.akc.org/breeds/bulldog/index.cfm[/link]
 
There are a few other breeds that have obvious health problems that are breed specific and it's very questionable if we should breed these dogs, just curious what everyone thinks about breeding these type of dogs especially bulldogs. 
 
It just seems that we just breed these dogs for our own personal interest and have no concern that we are bringing dog into this world who are only going to see the vets office more then any dog should.
 

I don't think it's ethical to say a breed or animal should not exist...if there are dedicated and involved people willing to spend the money, time and blood sweat and tears it takes to keep them going. Bulldogs are a breed that takes WORK...but if whelping difficulties are the be all end all, of what breeds will exist they'd not be the only ones gone. ALL breeds have problems...some severe. Obviously they have a huge appeal and following....otherwise they'd not be so incredibly popular amongst BYB's.
 
Personally I am a biologically logical person...and I don't think Pandas should be paid so much attention nor so MUCH money spent on them, often at the expense of other things (consider what China spends on them and then measure that against what they spent on their Rabies program...and the result??)...I bet if they were less "cute"...people wouldn't be so worried about them, lol. But is that ethical? They take no less effort to breed and keep healthy and happy than a Bulldog...and they give momentary joy when you see them in pics or at the zoo...but doesnt' a dog bring a more lasting joy and companionship? So...why the Panda...and NOT the Bulldog? At least with the Bulldog, it is individuals spending the money to keep them going...not governments and ultimately...me the taxpayer [] eople are supposedly responsible for the Pandas decline in numbers...and people are responsible for the way a Bulldog looks and the resultant problems.
 
Dachs, Bassetts, PBGV's, Drevers, Corgi's all have a genetic defect known as dwarfism....it's hindered them not at all in finding "work' and people interested in working and breeding them...all are quite old breeds, and have been quite useful, in their time, to people. That alone entitles them to exist...as if they need an entitlement...lol!
 
 
Your thinking, IMO along the same lines as people who want PB exterminated. Is it ethical to breed a dog that was ONLY ever bred to fight with other dogs??...not my thinking...the extremists behind a lot of the current BSL think that way tho...WHY should we care or continue breeding the PB? Isn't that really just unnecessary and cruel to them...considering they can't help it, they will bite someone or something and be put down eventually?
 
There's a lot invested in every breed. The Bulldog in particular has made a contribution to history and mankind simply by being what it is...a loyal faithful companion that only ever did what we asked of it...the symbol of an entire country in fact...Britain...bred to have the kind of character the Brits admire and he is an ICON here in the USA as well...how many HS and college teams sport the Bulldog as mascot? How many ads feature them...print and TV? He's earned the right to exist in my book...as have ALL breeds of dog....they are here...they did not ask to be...and since they are here and have brought joy to so many...yes...they deserve to exist. The people who care deeply about the Bulldog...DO care about it's future and don't plan to be the generation who "drops the ball" .
 
Picking and choosing breeds based on our own ideals of what is "okay' and what is 'unnatural' is a slippery slope that eventually leads to thinking like a BSL'er IMO...we stand together...for ALL dogs and ALL dog people separate them out...and things fall apart.

I just have this thing about natural selection. It has selected the bulldog. They cannot breed, without human intervention. They get horrible skin infections. They have awful allergies. They have breathing and dental issues. They have knee and hip problems, and probably horrible arthritis, because of their shape. Every one that I've met has had behavioral issues, as well, but that's probably more related to poor breeding and training.

I *DO* really like Bulldogs. I enjoy spending time with them, but I hate to see the condition that even well cared for Bulldogs end up in. 

I don't think it's ethical to breed dogs that can't possibly be truly healthy. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs with legs so long and thin, that they jump off of the couch and break them. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs with backs so long that an extra pound can pull a disc out. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs with such a flat face that they can't breathe properly, or chew their food. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs that are so ridiculously prone to allergies. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs when the whole line is dropping at 5-7 years old, of cancer, or a heart condition.

I may sound bias toward the breed but only because I#%92ve seen the side of breeding bulldogs that is horrible.  Puppies born with backwards legs, and giant heads all because someone wanted a certain look and got a few mistakes along the way.  I would not want to see this breed disappear but with so many ending up with shocking health problems is it ethical to breed a dog who will be in pain most it#%92s life?
 
I'm sure there are many breeders who are very careful in selecting what bulldogs to breed and are aware of all the risk involved.  They know going into this breed that they will have high vet bills and lots of expenses to pay just to keep this dog healthy.  However there are those BYB who do it just because they like the look and those seem to be taking over. 
 
We are all very concerned in health testing and making sure our dogs are at the best health they can be.  Why would we want to breed a dog that we know will have health problems?  I would not breed a dog know to have birth defects but I would certainly own one if I had the money to pay for its needs.  I by no means want to make a well know breed banned but I would like to see more people educated about their choices in what they do with their dog and what other dog they breed it with. 
 
As for as PB I am agents the way they are treated in dog fights and by BYB but I#%92m in no way for getting rid of the breed altogether.  How do you separate that, they are wonderful dog but got in the hands of the wrong people.  I kind of feel the same for bulldogs; too many have gotten into the hands of the wrong people who know little about breeding.  This could happen to any breed but should we encourage it?
 

I would not want to see this breed disappear but with so many ending up with shocking health problems is it ethical to breed a dog who will be in pain most it#%92s life?

Maybe that's why I'm so funny about breeding. I live with a dog who suffers, daily, because of her haphazard breeding. She lives a relatively normal life, but only because of constant veterinary care and dietary supplements. She'll never be able to do competetive obedience, or agility (which we have the groundwork for, and I wanted so badly to do, and she has the drive for it), and she'll never be able to be a therapy dog. She has to be restricted on her exersize, at THREE, because of her joints. That's not even the half of it.

I'm probably overly sensitive about it. I don't think it's ok, though, to breed anything that has the propensity to throw a puppy like this one.

Just wanted to add that at this point I am a little confused over the whole idea of where I stand on this issue.  I don't know weather to stand up for the breed and say all dogs for all or look at this the way dog lovers look at the laberdoodle and say that's a mistake that went out of control.  I'm really open for some good thoughts of why we do this so I can make a rational decision of how to organize my thoughts on this breed.
 
Thanks rwbeagles, I think what you said makes a lot of sence that makes things a little more clear to me.

I do not feel the breed should be iradicated, but 100 years ago they bred themselves, and free whelped right?  I brought this up because everyone wants to stop cropping and docking, but no one thinks twice at breeding bulldogs.  These are dogs that cannot scratch the back half of their bodies, can you imagine not being able to scratch half your body, that is cruel to me.  They have the highest infant mortality rate of any dog breed, in a good knowledgable breeder 2/3 survive, in a BYB that is about half.  Now that is truly sad.  The french bulldog, pugs and boston terrier are well on their way to being the very same.  If breeders are willing to put the time and money into breeding them it is no different than people wanting to put the time and money into docking and cropping their dogs.

ORIGINAL: jennie_c_d

I just have this thing about natural selection. It has selected the bulldog. They cannot breed, without human intervention. They get horrible skin infections. They have awful allergies. They have breathing and dental issues. They have knee and hip problems, and probably horrible arthritis, because of their shape. Every one that I've met has had behavioral issues, as well, but that's probably more related to poor breeding and training.

I *DO* really like Bulldogs. I enjoy spending time with them, but I hate to see the condition that even well cared for Bulldogs end up in. 

I don't think it's ethical to breed dogs that can't possibly be truly healthy. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs with legs so long and thin, that they jump off of the couch and break them. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs with backs so long that an extra pound can pull a disc out. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs with such a flat face that they can't breathe properly, or chew their food. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs that are so ridiculously prone to allergies. I don't think it's ok to breed dogs when the whole line is dropping at 5-7 years old, of cancer, or a heart condition.

Natural selection went out the window when humans started inventing breeds.  Overall, I don't have any problem with breeding dogs.  In fact, I work for a breeder and I am expecting my own (well, my dogs) first litter in October.  All of our dogs are health tested and most of them are champions.  I don't think the breeding of bulldogs is any more of an ethical issue than the breeding of Parson Russells.  There are risks for any kind of dog being bred and one needs to know those risks.  Health testing needs to be done and any negative traits in the breed need to be improved.  If the breeder is willing to accept the risks associated with the breed and try to improve upon the faults, I see no ethical issue.

I don't think the breeding of bulldogs is any more of an ethical issue than the breeding of Parson Russells.

My dog is a JRT. She has more issues than any dog I've know, health and behavior wise. I do not agree with breeding unhealthy dogs, period. If they cannot physically make a tie, or deliver a litter of puppies, as a BREED, they probably aren't the healthiest dogs. That's all I'm saying. If they cannot reproduce without surgical intervention, WHY?

furthermore...was dr. moreau ethical?

ORIGINAL: ColleenC

Natural selection went out the window when humans started inventing breeds.  Overall, I don't have any problem with breeding dogs.  In fact, I work for a breeder and I am expecting my own (well, my dogs) first litter in October.  All of our dogs are health tested and most of them are champions.  I don't think the breeding of bulldogs is any more of an ethical issue than the breeding of Parson Russells.  There are risks for any kind of dog being bred and one needs to know those risks.  Health testing needs to be done and any negative traits in the breed need to be improved.  If the breeder is willing to accept the risks associated with the breed and try to improve upon the faults, I see no ethical issue.

I don't totally agree with that. Yes, humans have interferred with natural selection with all breeds, but some are a little more extreme examples than others. I think the English Bulldog is the most extreme. The list of common health problems is VERY long for that breed and also I think the incidence of those health problem is MUCH higher than with most breeds like the Jack Russell.
 
When even the reputable Bulldog breeders who do all the available health testing have sections on their website about how the Bulldog is an expensive breed to own due to their numerous health problems, that's a little extreme. When the dogs can't even mate or give birth naturally that's a little extreme. The question isn't whether people like Bulldogs- I love them! The question is whether it's in the best interest of the DOG. The thing is, Bulldog breeders aren't working towards breeding a type of dog that will have less health problems. They have so many spine problems because they are a dwarf breed; so dwarfism (a health defect) is being purposely reproduced. The dogs are so heavy set that they have breathing problems and their heads are so large that they can't be birthed naturally... none of those things are changing with breeding to the AKC standard. So yeah, I do think it's a shady gray area of ethics breeding Bulldogs. JMHO.
 
Edited for typos.

ORIGINAL: gaylemarie

furthermore...was dr. moreau ethical?

 
errr.... do we even want to go there??? 
 
This is a question of bring a life into this world that is questionable, not taking a life away.

lol it was sarcasm, and i think you are confusing my reference with kevorkian. the island of dr. moreau was a movie about a crazy doctor that crossbred different species to make these freakish creatures.