C.M. Debate

what is c.m.?

Cesar Milan.

A controversial trainer, who uses considerable force to get results.

ORIGINAL: gaylemarie

what is c.m.?

 
One of the best trainers in the world.  []

I have closed many a thread regarding C.M. due to the debates turn ugly posts.

 
How sad is that. We as adults cannot have a discussion without turning it into an ugly debate.
 
As Jaime said, there are many different ways of training on many different levels. I respect Ian Dunbar's method of training as well as Cesar Millan's.  I've gotten to know CM through his books, video's and his web site. If nothing else, nobody cannot say he does not truely LOVE dogs. And that has my respect.

I totally agree with Forpaws

Totally agree!  We are all here because of our common interest.  There are a lot of wonderful vibes on the board and many of us feel a bond with others through this board even though we are many miles away.  Discussions should always be in that light. 

It's too bad because I don't find the discussion about CM as helpful without hearing another opinion or method of doing things.  It all looks great to me when he does things but I know like Jaime said there are other ways of doing things.  And, I'm not exposed to those ways unless someone here tells me about them. 

I don't have the channel that has the Dog Whisperer. Can someone tell me for example one of his training techniques?  Thanks.

I have watched Dog Whisperer for the past few days (its a marathon right now). Having never watched this show before or read the books i have formulated a tentative opinion...

if CM's results are permanent and as effective as the show indicates (everything on TV is true and accurate, right?) then i would say this man is perforiming a great service to the dog world. many of the dogs on the show are A MESS, and if any of the owners were friends of mine, i would recommend the dogs being put to sleep (dogs that are out of control and dagerous to people have no business in the community---that is my harsh position) these dogs are causing tesions in the family units and many have bitten several times.

a quick tug on a choke chain or a swift tap with his foot (i would never call that a kick!) and viola! agression obsessions solved! owners are happy! families reunited! does it last? are the dogs totally trustworthy from then on? I dont know...the "recap show" showed consistant and happy owners...so, as i said before, if one was to believe what is on TV, id say CM is doing great work.


Watching the show made me look back at the problems ive had with dogs in the house and when they stopped. and i can say that as i brought foster dogs into the house and became more confident with dogs and a "calm assertive" pack leader, even my own dogs became better behaved and more predictable. this was before CM and i always said my dogs got better with age...but maybe I BECAME a better dog owner.

I can see why this subject matter could get heated. It is very close to the spank or dont spank your child subject. I think that it all depends on the dog and owner plus if it is for training or behavior modification. It can all depend... That being said I love to watch Cesar Milans show, he is training the owners as much as he is training the dog which any dog trainer/ behavior modifer should do. As a dog trainer myself I was taught by my teacher the training collar way(old way). I have changed and modified what I was taught and kept orthers to create my own style of training. What it comes down to is, does the end justify the means.

I've never seen him use "force"
 
I think his methods are different. Some people like him, some don't. But it's not fair to judge HIM as a PERSON, and insult his way of thinking.
 
His methods aren't for everybody, but for some, he DOES help.
 
I used his finger in the neck thing on my grandma's dog during Christmas, because be will bark hysterically at another dog walking by. So I came up behind him, and "ccht!" and it worked! I startled him, and be backed off! I made clear that the window was MINE. I have used MANY of Cesar's methods, and I can see how they'd work.
 
The #1 reason I like him is because he likes ALL breeds. And he has MANY Pits, and that excites me more than you'll ever know. I drove my grandma crazy with "LOOK! THERES A PIT! LOOK! HES SHOWING A PIT!!"
She wanted to kill me by the end of my visit.
 
There is a white Pit that looks a lot like Dulce
 
So basically, he's not for everybody. But I know that he has helped A LOT of people, and I praise him for that. It's so wonderful that he has rehabilited so many Pitties

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I'll put it here. I've been working with dogs for over a couple of decades now, and I to am somewhat perplexed at the underlying hostilities towards a man (CM) that does his best to help people using very reasonable techniques. I have my way, he has his way, others have theirs. So what's the problem? I understand that discussions can turn into debates, it's the hostility that throws me off. I have no problem with CM's techniques, or even positive reinforcement training. I only have a problem with people who "claim" positive reinforcement "only" (

Welcome!
Hope you enjoy the site.
 This has been a heated debate that often turns into personal attacks on both sides. It really isn't about the "man" in most cases, his style/techniques have come under fire more then him. The bigger issue with the discussions are that no one can stand freely and open mindedly and that there "could" be another way to get the same results on both sides of the conversation. It results in personal attacks sometimes as quick as the thread I closed yesterday where a member made a statement against trainers in a list, they posted what the trainers have said regarding CM and it was taken as the member was talking about another member on the forum....it is a hot topic that I se no common ground on.
 
 I have no "formal" training to train dogs, I've attended an obedience class when I was interested in competition obedience with one of my dogs and my own personal experience which I have learned through observation of several different trainers whose "styles/techniques" differ and working with my own individual dogs for 35 years. I recognize that different methods/techniques work on different dogs I wish that our members would understand that this is pretty much a grey area until they apply training to each individual dog but that doesn't happen often here and so the debate, turn rude, turn attack continues till someone gets warned, suspended and yes even banned from this site. I don't care what anyone's traing beliefs are but you MUST play nice.

I think that both sides feel that if the other side "understood" and tried the other method, they would be astounded by how effective it can be.  However, many of our +R trainers have "come out of the dark" so to speak and at one time DID use the harsher methods.....and like born again Christians, are a bit zealot ish.  And that's not a rub to anyone.  Once you find an easier method that is equally or more effective, it's hard to listen to folks constantly bash your thinking.
 
I've never really been a physical trainer.  And, nope, I'm not a trainer.  I've mostly always used the kinder, gentler methods with my dogs, as I did with my children.  Not to say I haven't used aversives, such as a prong collar, but I've done that humanely.  So for ME some of this stuff is way over the top....flooding dogs, hanging them, running them on a treadmill....that stuff is completely alien to me because I know that there are kinder (and in my mind) better ways to achieve the same result, or a BETTER result.
 
I get disguisted with some of our normally sane and rational members going at each other like a bunch of hyenas fighting for a loin quarter........so for the most part, I just stay out of the CM debates, other than to express my displeasure.