Out-of-control Kid

I have an update on this... since this incident, we have gone to a few stores and several young children came in. Shippo's attitude toward them was not fearful at all, so when their parents asked if their kids could pet him (It's a miracle!) I said yes. He enjoyed it and he cuddled up to them. One little kid thought he was a husky lmfao... she was like "Wow a husky! I like huskies a lot but sometimes they shed..." She was like 5 or 6 lmfao... He even gave a toddler in a stroller kisses!

So I think he is going to be fine. >^_^<

Nice!  I have to always remember that amongst the many idiots out there, there are people who respect your boundaries.  I'm glad things went well for you.  Keep smiling Shippo!

Good for Shippo. As for the kid in the video, my mother would slap or hit us if we hit someone else. The idea being, "that's how it feels to be hit. Don't do it again."
Of course, I've been whipped until my hide was black and blue and blistered and peeling and I've been slapped for a giggle at the dinner table. But, nevertheless, the talking-to's and time-outs are not working for that child. In my childhood, kids got whipped until they behaved. If that didn't work, they were sent to military academy. Or to a shrink who would medicate them. What if none of the nice things worked? Could you euthanize a child, like we would a dog? For some reason, the child thinks he is equal to or superior to his parents. And they are taking the abuse and it will get worse as the child gets older, stronger, quicker. Then he'll do something that will wind him up in prison, where they don't even know the phrase "positive reinforcement." He'll get all kinds of punishment avoidance training until he either learns to get along or is killed. Once he learns where he fits in in prison, he'll end up staying there, where he knows his place.

When I go out with my dog I just assume that children will run up and pet my dog.  No, I don't think children should run up to strange dogs and pet them.  Of course they should ask first.  But I understand that that will not always happen.  It's just a given in any public situation and I accept that.  I take the opportunity to teach the children who are not petting the dog right the correct way of petting.  It usually goes over very well, the kids like learning how the doggie likes to be petted.  I feel that if your dog cannot handle these situations, they should not be put into them. If I felt that my dog was capable of biting in a common situation like this, then I just wouldn't take her there. Just my .

This is right on so many levels.

First, expecting kids or their parents or anyone else to act any certain way is just a recipe for conflict. (Erin is right about the right v. happy thing) Looking at this kind of ridiculous behavior as an opportunity to teach correct behavior is positive and responsible and *actually does something to help the problem*. The problem is that kids get bitten when they act like their spazzy selves around dogs, and dogs fear kids for good reason. Complaining that the mom didn't do her share is technically correct, but is not helping. Teaching the kid to pet the dog correctly is.

And lastly, while any dog is capable of biting a child that is being particularly full of the devil, truly reactive dogs need to be managed right on the edge but within their comfort zone. To push outside the comfort zone on a dog that is truly reactive is called "flooding," and it is a crappy, unfair technique. As someone who has owned a really reactive dog, I think this kind of situation can be avoided before it even happens. You just get really aware of triggers when you're handling a reactive dog, and work to avoid them from far far away. I would never have let my last dog within 20 feet of a kid, because kids freaked her out and she bit. Same with other dogs. I walked her on busy city streets three times a day, and just got good at spotting her triggers before she did, so she could get desensitized slowly. On her terms.

You know, having a dog is a privilege and not a right. Nobody should have to know anything or behave in any specific way because it's your dog and therefore your responsibility. If people walk up to your dog and do things you don't like, that is your problem--not theirs. I dislike these kvetching threads because they tend to assume that Other People should deal with Me And My Dog in such and such a way. And that's not very adult.

IMO, Me And My Dog should be able to go about our business without infringing upon Other People's business.

ORIGINAL: fisher6000

You know, having a dog is a privilege and not a right. Nobody should have to know anything or behave in any specific way because it's your dog and therefore your responsibility. If people walk up to your dog and do things you don't like, that is your problem--not theirs. I dislike these kvetching threads because they tend to assume that Other People should deal with Me And My Dog in such and such a way. And that's not very adult.

IMO, Me And My Dog should be able to go about our business without infringing upon Other People's business.

Great idea. I think I'll just let my future child run up to any dog he sees without asking... because according to your post, it's all the dog owner's responsibility, and none of the parent's. To hell with making your kid mind and keeping him/her out of danger. >9.9<

Calm down, fisher. While I wasn't there and didn't see how the kid was acting, my understanding is that it was a particularly insane child. I certainly wouldn't expect that kind of behaviour from a kid. I've experienced it, but rarely. I would consider it a pretty nominal risk that I might meet a kid like that while out with my dog. Yes, it isn't helpful to blame the parent, but I don't think astaracheetah or any other owner should be expected to keep their dog away from the public while it's still learning just in case you meet that crazy child and for some reason are unable to avoid a confrontation. The OP did their best to prevent the kid from pushing the dog too far and the kid was just too quick. These things happen sometimes. Glad that Shippo has bounced back and is getting on well with other children. Obviously there's nothing much wrong with his socialisation so far. You should be proud. 

Having children is a responsibility, NOT a right.
 
IMHO me and my dog should be able to go about our business without you and your kid infringing on OUR business.  This cuts both ways.  You can not work on your dogs issues without getting him/her out in public, and yes, of course one has to behave responsibly with a dog who has issues, but does that completely abdicate you and your child from behaving like human beings?
 
Case in point.  On the weekends at least one day and usually both, we take 3 trips into our little village to take the dogs for a walk, 2 at a time.  Yesterday we were on our second set of dogs doing our little 2 mile circuit around the village.  Sundays are great because very little is open in the village and we have the opportunity to get some good leash work in without a TON of people, but still a fair number.  Our route passes a beautiful park.....the playground is awesome and set way back from the road.  We were on the OTHER side of the road, walking along, minding our business and keeping our wits because we were approaching an ice cream stand that IS open on Sundays.  Often there will be families outback sitting at the picnic tables and I absolutely don't want to frighten children.  All of a sudden, I saw a streak and a little 3 year old girl threw herself at Shadow.  Just launched herself and landed on him.  This child dashed out of the park and across the road.
 
Now Shadow was the right dog for this child to pick to "attack" because Shadow loves everyone, but, he gets very excited and will do his little half barks when he sees people because he wants to go make friends so I am constantly telling him "not everyone wants to make friends with BIG dogs"  Some of that is for him, some is for the people so that they don't take his vocalizations as wanting to eat them.  Shadow was turning himself inside out with excitement that this little girl came to see him, but sat like a good boy while I TRIED to talk to the child and show her the RIGHT way to pet him, which didn't include poking him.  Theo, was scared, and it's only by the grace of God that Theo wasn't the one she picked to jump on because he is a bit more nervous of strangers.  He wouldn't have hurt her, but he wouldn't have been so accepting of suddenly finding a child attached to him either.
 
Momma SLOWLY makes her way out of the park, and strolls over to us.  Momma is of course not in the least concerned that her child has just zipped across the street and attached herself to a strange dog.  Momma says "you've got some nerve walking such big dogs in town....my child could have been hit by a car running to see them."  and then she smacked the child.
 
Sigh.....yep, everything is always the fault of the dogs.  Even if they are walking along behaving and minding their own business and react nicely to a child who literally launches herself at them.  I guess me and my dog were infringing on THEIR business.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Having children is a responsibility, NOT a right.

IMHO me and my dog should be able to go about our business without you and your kid infringing on OUR business.  This cuts both ways.  You can not work on your dogs issues without getting him/her out in public, and yes, of course one has to behave responsibly with a dog who has issues, but does that completely abdicate you and your child from behaving like human beings?

Case in point.  On the weekends at least one day and usually both, we take 3 trips into our little village to take the dogs for a walk, 2 at a time.  Yesterday we were on our second set of dogs doing our little 2 mile circuit around the village.  Sundays are great because very little is open in the village and we have the opportunity to get some good leash work in without a TON of people, but still a fair number.  Our route passes a beautiful park.....the playground is awesome and set way back from the road.  We were on the OTHER side of the road, walking along, minding our business and keeping our wits because we were approaching an ice cream stand that IS open on Sundays.  Often there will be families outback sitting at the picnic tables and I absolutely don't want to frighten children.  All of a sudden, I saw a streak and a little 3 year old girl threw herself at Shadow.  Just launched herself and landed on him.  This child dashed out of the park and across the road.

Now Shadow was the right dog for this child to pick to "attack" because Shadow loves everyone, but, he gets very excited and will do his little half barks when he sees people because he wants to go make friends so I am constantly telling him "not everyone wants to make friends with BIG dogs"  Some of that is for him, some is for the people so that they don't take his vocalizations as wanting to eat them.  Shadow was turning himself inside out with excitement that this little girl came to see him, but sat like a good boy while I TRIED to talk to the child and show her the RIGHT way to pet him, which didn't include poking him.  Theo, was scared, and it's only by the grace of God that Theo wasn't the one she picked to jump on because he is a bit more nervous of strangers.  He wouldn't have hurt her, but he wouldn't have been so accepting of suddenly finding a child attached to him either.

Momma SLOWLY makes her way out of the park, and strolls over to us.  Momma is of course not in the least concerned that her child has just zipped across the street and attached herself to a strange dog.  Momma says "you've got some nerve walking such big dogs in town....my child could have been hit by a car running to see them."  and then she smacked the child.

Sigh.....yep, everything is always the fault of the dogs.  Even if they are walking along behaving and minding their own business and react nicely to a child who literally launches herself at them.  I guess me and my dog were infringing on THEIR business.

Wow! What in the world was that parent thinking? I would have been high tailing it after my child and then apologizing to YOU profusely. It is basic politeness and safety. Where have manners gone in this world? Where has accepting responsibility for your actions gone?

That child was lucky that she wasn't hurt.

--Sara

My point exactly.  We were NOT infringing on anyone elses business.  WE were infringed upon, yet we caught heck from this female who called herself the childs MOTHER.  But, it's always the fault of us dog owners somehow.

wow. That mom wins the moron prize, I think.
I've had children run up behind my horse and grab his tail. I've had an adult man run at my dog screaming in joy and put him in a headlock. I recently had a weird encounter with some college girls who wanted to pet the  Dane I was walking-- despite my careful request, repeated over and over, to NOT pat him on the top of the head (dogs hate that) they all did, every one of them.
 I agree with whoever said that it's the animal owner's responsibility to train the animal to accept the crazy behavior of humans without resorting to defensive biting/kicking. But what to do while in the process of training???? it's a puzzle.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

My point exactly.  We were NOT infringing on anyone elses business.  WE were infringed upon, yet we caught heck from this female who called herself the childs MOTHER.  But, it's always the fault of us dog owners somehow.

Why is it the fault of the dog owners? Can we foresee that a child will come tearing across a street to see our cute furball?

I am not saying that my kids are perfect. They are far from it. I have recently had to lecture my 7 year old son for walking up to a strange dog and petting him without asking. I actually did it right there in front of the dog's owner. I explained to Hawke that he doesn't know about how a strange dog will react like we do not know how strange people will react. If he ever wants to pet a dog, to ask the owner politely if he can and give the owner a chance to reply. I then politely asked the owner if we could try this again with my son politely asking to pet the dog. Hawke was then allowed to pet the dog.

--Sara

Go back up a bit to "owning a dog is a privledge, not a right".  That's my point.  So is having kids, and parents should be no less responsible for their kids than we dog owners are for our dogs.

ORIGINAL: fisher6000
You know, having a dog is a privilege and not a right. Nobody should have to know anything or behave in any specific way because it's your dog and therefore your responsibility. If people walk up to your dog and do things you don't like, that is your problem--not theirs. I dislike these kvetching threads because they tend to assume that Other People should deal with Me And My Dog in such and such a way. And that's not very adult.

IMO, Me And My Dog should be able to go about our business without infringing upon Other People's business.

 
I don't understand this. Are you saying that when walking in public with your dog, you should be ok with a child acting inappropriately toward your dog? I disagree with this. If someone does something inappropriate to me or any member of my family (dogs very much included), it will very shortly be their problem. I'm not saying that I don't have a responsibility to keep my dog under control. But I feel that I should be able to walk down the street without children running uncontrolled toward my dog.
 
I apologize if I was reading the post incorrectly. That just struck a nerve with me.

I do not understand parents these days.  I don't understand the kids either.  My dog has become a bit more accepting lately, but I still have my worries.  I refuse to allow any child to pet Xerxes without a parent right there at that time.  The last thing I want is an injured child, or an injured dog. 
 
Like Ron, I remember when I was growing up, most parents would discipline their children, or at least maintain control of them.  And if there was a dog bite, most of the time it was the childs fault, not the dogs.  Dogs are still animals, after all, and they react instinctively to situations.  They cannot be counted upon to make calm rational judgements in the face of screaming children, poking children, or children that run up squealing in delight.  After all a child's squealing sounds an awful lot like a wounded prey animal. 
 
Granted, it is irresponsible of us as dog owners to take a human aggressive dog into a public situation; however it is equally, if not more so irresponsible for humans to allow their children to run up to strange dogs before questioning the owner as to the propriety of doing so.  So does that take us back to square one?  I don't think so.  Most dogs that I know are not human aggressive, but some dogs, like mine, would rather be introduced before being handled by strangers.  If the introductions are managed appropriately then the problems associated with the dog-child or dog-human interaction will be reduced.  The handler has a responsibility that is equal to the parent of the stray child.  The handler needs to protect his/her dog from these situations and extricate the dog from the problem. 
 
The OP stated that he was trying to remove the dog from the child.  The child in question was out of control and was actually abusing the dog.  Responsibility: parent.

For what it's worth, fisher, I completely agree.
 
I started crafting a more lengthy response but then decided it's not really worth arguing... this is probably one of those topics where no one's going to come around to the other side.