Seeing Red!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Seeing Red!

    Need a place to vent and allow the red haze to clear……
     
    I am a very calm, soft spoken person --- 98.9% of the time. This morning, my Jeckyl-Hyde personality made itself known.
    Every morning Chinook and I train together on base. One of the things we have been working on is her fear of traffic: She is very noise sensitive. The sound of cars trucks motorcycles etc. has been beyond her comfort zone. ( But for some reason not helicopters??? They fascinate her, and she‘ll *** her head, ears full up not folded back, and watch them take off and fly away into the horizon.)
     
    Anyway, in the morning I have picked a small area that has a steady flow, but is not cram packed with people driving into work. Our biggest thing is we have perfect leash walking skills…..UNTIL, a noisy truck goes by, or a car with the stereo blaring, or a rumbling motorcycle. It must be sensory over load for her. She does very well on back roads in my village, just doesn#%92t like the major busy roads. I have begun walking her to this spot on base, then we move back away from traffic, and watch them all go by while I continue feeding her yummy liver treats.. Slowly, we#%92ve been moving closer and closer as the days pass. She is obviously still frightened, but she#%92s getting better. She always takes food now (which was not the case before), can now move her attention on to me, (which previously was difficult when she was consumed with the ‘I#%92m afraid and must flee#%92 behaviour) and now she is not near as squirmy and fidgety as before she‘ll remain in a sit stay. Her leash walking during these lessons still needs work but I know we are making progress.
     
    After a bit, we move on to the fields and go work on her commands and play and run together. While en route, we are stopped by a grounds worker. My French is not great but good enough for basic conversation, so I did understand what he was saying.. He said he watched us working every morning, she#%92s a beautiful dog, yadda, yadda yadda… then asked me if she was gentle, and if I had a bon bon I could give to him. This was my grave mistake. He crouched down, put the treat in front of her nose, and when she moved to take it from him…he smacked her across the face! I didn#%92t even think I just saw red and reacted..I hollered NO! And stomped on his foot., turned and tugged on Chinook#%92s leash--- I wanted to get away. He whipped out and grabbed my arm in anger…. My little 5 ½ month old Chinook let out a mighty ferocious warning growl ( she has never done that before) and he let go. My French totally left me, but every other obscenity I knew was flooding out of my mouth. My dog is now spun up tight, I am shaking I am so upset. Positively livid at the man. Raise a hand to my dog! Grrrrrr, Who the Bloody **** does that to a dog they#%92ve just met, and a puppy no less????

     
    And I am also doubly upset with myself. I didn#%92t see any clue that he would do anything of such a nature. Every social situation she has been in, with people, dogs, etc. It has been nothing but positive. Then I go and place her in a bad position after trying to teach her to get over another fear. I could just kick myself till I am black and blue!
     
    Needless to say , we didn#%92t continue with our routine of play and train. I hope that doesn#%92t come across to her as a form of ;punishment. She loves the play portion, and ges so excited when we near the fields, but I was in no shape to even try and pretend to be positive and up beat. I am not sure she was either, to be honest…. We went home and it has taken me till just now as I am writing this to calm down.. She#%92s all snoozed out at my feet, so that#%92s a good sign.
     
     I hate getting like this. My insides are still churning. Every animal I have had, I've never had anyone touch any of them in a negative or harmful way.  I am still shocked, this was quite unexpected for me, and a hard lesson learned. Sadly at Chinook#%92s expense, I hope there is no adverse effect. 
     
    Thanks very much for listening and allowing me to vent.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I could just kick myself till I am black and blue

     
    I would rather you kick the man until he's black and blue. If I were there, I would do it for you. Without being introduced to him, so that it would be a complete suprise for him.
     
    Is there a legal remedy? The police? This sounds like assualt? If animals are property there, then you can also claim trespass of your property. In some places, I think, some working dogs are considered draught animals. In any case, there should be some law regarding the abuse of someone else's property.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am sorry to hear that.  I am also going to suggest that you actively seek out men you know to repeat the behaviors she encountered (men approaching and crouching down) so that she does not develop a really significant problem.  These belgians of ours are too smart for their own good some times, they remember things too well.  Use distance and feed her for staying calm as men approach.  When she will essentially ignore men while both are in motion, then the next stage would be to have her stop and men keep going.  The next stage both stopped.  The next stage men crouching.  I would not require any contact nor would I would eye contact from the men.
     
    I would try to set up my training opportunities as close as I could to the men without any noticable fear or avoidance reaction from my dog.  Once I identified the critical distance, back up about 2 to 3 feet and and practice at that distance.  Work to get closer and closer.  Try and keep your reaction and the reactions of your helper to a minimum, as if she is not even there.  You can work on the feeding and accepting petting later.
     
    You change from one step in the process to the next using the rule of 8.  Dog can handle the distance and actions for 8 of 10 trials on 8 of 10 days.  Only change one aspect at a time (distance or position).
     
    I found it helpful to teach a greeting command later in the process.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Is there a legal remedy? The police? This sounds like assualt?

     
    We are on a NATO base there are so many different countries represented here. I really don't know  for certain if  it is under Belgian law or military. The driving laws are local I know that , but as for the rest.. we have both MP's and the Belgian Gendarmerie patrolling and working the security gates. I will certainly enquire though.
     
    The big test will be tomorrow morning. She has never been smacked before, and this wasn't a light tap... Not that that would excuse the idiots behaviour. Thankfully she wasn't hurt but it did startle her, and me..which i am sure my reaction had a big effect on her too. Her ears went to the back of her head and she folded her tail underneath herself, until he grabbed me and i was jerking my arm. When she growled, her hackles were up and every hair was on end.
     
     But I am worried there will be an association with the area now. We had just finished our "noise lesson" and had crossed the street and were heading to our fun zone. I may try and go back this afternoon and work her in our spot, before we pick up my husband. *fingers crossed* we won't have any thing more than our normal issues!
     
    Thanks for the offer of kicking him black and blue. I can tell you, had you been here, i wouldn't have batted an eye, had that been the end result!
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    actively seek out men you know to repeat the behaviors she encountered (men approaching and crouching down) so that she does not develop a really significant problem.

    I am assuming this wouldn't be my husband who could help with this?

    She adores our trainer and he's male.. I'll  make a point of getting more men to apporach her from our dog club. They are trustworthy in their approach. I certainly do not want her to be man shy or hand shy. She already prefers women so hopefully this isn't a big negative tick in the box.

    The sad part is, it is not just her trust that may be effected.. Mine too. Am i suppose to be leary of every person now? *sigh*

    Thank you for your advice MRV, it is very much appreciated and respected. This is my first Belgian Shepherd, and I am blessed to have such a remarkable dog. 
     
    BTW..You have beautiful dogs!
    • Gold Top Dog
    well the good thing is it happened prior to seven months which tends to be a fear period.  Also I am encouraged by your description of her response.  If you are matter of fact and work with your club folks, I expect all will be well.  My Dess was likely to avoid folks at this age, but he now greets anyone on command.  It took awhile but the "say Hi" command and those liver treats took care of it.  I initially did not require him to actually get petted or take treats.  He just had to take a step toward them, then closer, then touch with the nose, then take a treat, then get petted.  He will now go toward a stranger I am speaking to and look back for his cookie.

    Nora is quite the opposite.  She will approach and investigate just about anything and anyone.
     
    I think every thing will be just fine, after all, she's a belgian [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I was completely schocked when I read this...what "bleep" was that freak show thinking!! Good for you for stomping on his foot at least, I would have been in shock as well.  It makes me mad just reading something like this.  [:@] I have no advice to give, I am just sorry you and Chinook had to go through something like that. I am sure the many positive expereinces will outweigh the one bad experience she has had. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Kim, I think my jaw just hit the floor. mrv has given great advice so I won't add to that, but I do want to say that there's now way you could have known this guy would do that. What he did was just NOT NORMAL. ;) One doesn't expect a sane normal human to smack a dog in the face out of nowhere. Weird - but please don't blame yourself for it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I second dogslyfe, including the jaw hitting the floor!  My god, what was he thinking?
    • Gold Top Dog
    The assault on the dog might not be enough to get him in trouble but the assault on YOU certainly would be.
     
    As shocked as I am, I'm trying to see both sides of this...perhaps he slapped her because she moved to the treat??  And that's how he would train?  Or she scared him?  Still no excuse.....HE approached you, HE crouched down.....and he *might* have grabbed you to try and calm you down??  Nope, can't see it from his side.  Fry the sucker.  Seriously.  I don't know the laws there, but most places grabbing your arm would be considered assault....enough for him to at least get a good talking to.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm just curious but did he happen to explaing what the heck he did that for?? 
     
    Anyway, you might want to check with whatever police are there.  Last winter Willow had snow balls of ice thrown at her and the police asked me if they had touched her at all.  So, maybe it would be an issue.  But, don't forget he also touched you. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Another jaw hitting the floor.

    I can't believe that a peson would do this, just come up and ask to give your dog a treat and then hit the dog?????

    I don't have any advice, but it sounds like you have been making a lot of progress, so hopefully she'll be ok and can move forward with her training.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm just curious but did he happen to explaing what the heck he did that for??

     
     I didn't stick around to ask. Last thing I had said as he was crouching, was, " Her name is Chinook."
     
    She will move her head forward towards you sometimes when she goes to get the treat but not her body she stays in a sit, or whatever position i have her in. She certainly didn't lunge or a snap, so I know she didn't startle him. She was right at my left side the entire time and he crouched dead in front of us.  But the moment his hand connected with her, I was so not in rational frame of mind to figure out why he would even do such a thing.
     
    And Glenda perhaps you are right...maybe this was his "training method" with his own dogs and he so generously  wanted to share his teaching skills with us[:'(] IDK. I've been thinking about it all day and I still don't understand.
     
    As for him grabbing me, I dont think he was trying to calm me down he also called me a name so i know he was plenty ticked off at me, and I am sure it's because I hurt his foot.
     
    Hummmm,  involving the police, I don't think i will unless he were to approach us again while we are out there working. There is a local police fellow who works the gate, he always speaks about Terv's with me. I may ask him what he would suggest.  I am actually not looking forward to telling my husband as it is.[&:]
     
     Well anyway, she played well in our yard a bit ago.. so she seems like her happy go lucky self right now.[:)
    • Gold Top Dog
    OMG! I can't believe that happened! So sorry both of you had to experience that.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Another jaw just hit the floor.  WTH?  Hopefully you've had enough good experiences so that this one bad one doesn't set you back too far.