Back, sort of...LOTS to share!

Opinions needn't be judgements...sometimes the hardest thing to do is say nothing at all.

FWIW, Emma has quite a few kills under her belt, and also has self control. She's perfectly safe around caged or uncaged small animals, and can be called off of a running animal. It is possible! Even for a "difficult" breed, with STRONG prey drive, that was bred to hunt. Kills *are* self reinforcing, but so is barking and digging in the garbage. I hope you've all stopped your dogs from barking excessively and digging in garbage.
 
Ratsicles, that new baby is absolutely ADORABLE! What a cool dog to have!

Opinions needn't be judgements...sometimes the hardest thing to do is say nothing at all.

 
 
Your opinion is respected.....sitting idle and not saying something can prove disastrous....but, I will sit back and watch it unfold[]

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Opinions needn't be judgements...sometimes the hardest thing to do is say nothing at all.

 
Agreed - and sometimes, truth needs to be spoken, rather than just getting into agreement and gushing over a new puppy...turning a blind eye to the many other serious issues that need to be addressed.  It would be like someone posting a link to their photo album showing their new puppy, and in the meantime there are photos of an animal being abused on the same site.  Everyone decides to totally ignore the issue of the abused animal because it's a confrontation/source of conflict...and instead just gets into agreement about how great the new puppy is.  Calling attention to the issue staring everyone straight in the face is not casting judgment.  It IS turning the floodlights on that issue full blast, but all I've heard here are people asking Ratsicles - is she going to address the bigger issue (Ogre) before more animals get killed - or is she setting her hopes on the LGD to fix the entire problem?  I don't think anyone here has a problem with a livestock guard dog...it's the circumstances and reasons why that dog is being purchased, without addressing the major, glaring issue, that's concerning me and a few others. 
 
Speaking one's truth is not necessarily casting a judgment.

Stay on topic - there is nothing wrong with expressing disagreement, if it is done in a respectful manner.
 
That said, I also know someone who had an Akita who was unable to adjust to new surroundings. After a few weeks, the dog bit the husband so badly that it tore muscle. He was PTS.

ORIGINAL: snownose

ColleenC.....you are right......people are different and can handle different situations....but, my opinion in the past was based on this thread the OP posted..........draw your own conclusions, who knows this might get me red inked for speaking my mind......


[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=322017&mpage=1&key=񎧡]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=322017&mpage=1&key=񎧡[/link]

I read that thread when it was created, it gives a bigger picture on the OP situation and on why she is doing what she is doing, sometimes there is more that a forum can not show us and therefore we create our own perception about the posters

Here is a good link that speaks about bringing your dog to a new home and how that can affect him:
http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/blog/Season2ep12.php

I am NOT bashing the OP, i wish this could not happen to her but it seems that there is more going on in her life than just a "rude" dog, there is way more other things to address first before getting a new dog (regarless purpose or place to stay)

100% of her time and effort should be to help Ogre, if she buys a new dog that takes precious amount of energy to help him; yes, maybe she is superwoman and can do everything but like i said before, she already had one of her dogs to be PTS also for aggression, that tells me (along with the other link snownose posted) that maybe she should slow down a little bit and not try to do everything at the same time, there is NOTHING wrong by doing it that way and there is better chances to be successful in each one of them

Ratsicles,
First thank you for the update! I was  wondering how things were going as I remembered you were moving to a farm. It's great that you love the new place! I'm very sorry about the recent problems with Ogre, and I'm no expert on Akitas so all I can do is say I trust that you of all people will do what's best for him and best of luck with helping him adjust to the new environment and correcting his "issues". . Your new puppy Chief Beauregard is absolutely, positively adorable. He's just a wittle ball of fluff! I hope he will make you a great livestock guard as an adult!

Ratsicles, welcome back. I hope things improve for you and your LGD turns out to be everything you want him to be.

ORIGINAL: jennie_c_d

FWIW, Emma has quite a few kills under her belt, and also has self control. She's perfectly safe around caged or uncaged small animals, and can be called off of a running animal. It is possible! Even for a "difficult" breed, with STRONG prey drive, that was bred to hunt. Kills *are* self reinforcing, but so is barking and digging in the garbage. I hope you've all stopped your dogs from barking excessively and digging in garbage.

Ratsicles, that new baby is absolutely ADORABLE! What a cool dog to have!

Rotten has several kills under her belt too. She's now 100% safe as long as I am within eye/earshot. Anyone else has to have her under physical control around any small animals, including cats. I can control her verbally, but it took years. Her kills were squirrels, rabbits and cats (and one unfortunate chihuahua) that came into our fenced backyard. If she is not within eye/earshot or under physical control (leash) than poor animal []

Ogre may not ever be safe in this house, even though he was before, but it can be managed - with a lot of time and effort. Unfortunately you can't completely control what goes into his yard, but you can control the yards he goes into.

100% of her time and effort should be to help Ogre, if she buys a new dog that takes precious amount of energy to help him; yes, maybe she is superwoman and can do everything but like i said before, she already had one of her dogs to be PTS also for aggression, that tells me (along with the other link snownose posted) that maybe she should slow down a little bit and not try to do everything at the same time, there is NOTHING wrong by doing it that way and there is better chances to be successful in each one of them

I just wanted to jump in and defend her for a moment here, the other situation was totally unrelated and you shouldn't compare the two. If you'd read her entire thread about Madison you would know that she was rescued and already had aggression issues that needed to be dealt with. Totally different from a dog like an Akita who are well known for not adapting to new situations, and the not generalizing commands, etc.

She had two seperate problems to deal with. 1. Protect her livestock. 2. Help Ogre. Now, just because you wouldn't do things the way she chose to do them, doesn't mean she can't and won't be able to deal with the situation correctly. It may all go to hell, but it may go swimmingly as well. You just don't know. You're not in her shoes.
I've read her posts on this forum and I can tell that she sacrifices many many of her needs and wants on a daily basis to make sure her dogs have her full, undivided attention  and care.
And raising a LGD is totally different from getting an indoor puppy, and I doubt it will affect her commitment to Ogre. I agree with everyone who stated that it is imperative that she spend a lot of time, energy, and possibly money to help Ogre at the moment, but I also can read in the OP's posts that she knows this. So I just don't understand the criticism.

Just my $.02

Not intending to take this thread OT at all, but I'm not sure where else to ask this question since it came up in this thread.  Is that just an Akita thing - the inability to adjust well to new surroundings? Do most dogs make the change easier than that and just accept that wherever their people and their toys are is "home" or do a lot of them have a difficult period of adjustment? I'm curious because I might be putting Max in the car and heading about 500 miles south sometime after the first of the next year.
 
Joyce

I have always had imense respect for you, Brittany and your love and compassion about animals in need, but the first thing when I read this was
"wow sounds like kinda like a mess and now the pyr pup is getting into it to?"
 
I understand where Brittany is coming from....getting a guard dog to protect from wild animals, but the pry should not have to protect itself from another "pet" dog, especially one that resides in the same household.
 
I am worried about Beauregard getting attacked or even killled by Ogre. I am sorry if this is harsh but I think you were irresponsible in getting a new puppy when Ogre is having so many problems.
 
I think you should have gotten this problem under control before even thinking about getting a new puppy.
 

Yeah, having a new puppy right now is a big deal, but it's not so bad. I wouldn't have added another PET dog right now- but in the month I've been here, it has become deperately obvious that I NEED a guardian dog. I didn't expect to find one so quickly and wasn't even really really looking yet, but since such a great opportunity presented itself, I decided to take it.

 
I understand that a guard dog is not a house dog but isn't Beauregard going to be part of your family?
 
Wouldn't he be a guard dog and a companion. To me any dog I were to get I would consider it a "pet" even a guard dog. I'm sorry but I do not see this as a great opportunity. It would have been if all your dogs were trained and not attacking other animals.
 
I am sorry if this offensive, I am really just worried about all your dogs, including the new pup and Orge in this situation.

ORIGINAL: AnimalLover505

...raising a LGD is totally different from getting an indoor puppy, and I doubt it will affect her commitment to Ogre.

That's a very good point and I agree. From what I know about livestock guardians, they need to be able to be handled by the owner for things like vet visits and regular maintenance; other than that they should be bonding with the flock and NOT with people. It's actually better for them to not have much contact with their owner, that way they'll be 100% commited to protecting and staying with the flock.

I hope none of my posts came across as criticism. I'm positive that Ratsicles is doing the best she can with what she has. My only concerns are the "what ifs" of Ogre being able to adapt to farm life and the safety of other animals if he gets out.

ORIGINAL: Raja19
I understand that a guard dog is not a house dog but isn't Beauregard going to be part of your family?

Wouldn't he be a guard dog and a companion. To me any dog I were to get I would consider it a "pet" even a guard dog.

We were posting at the same time, but no LGD really aren't part of the family in a convential sense. They're very independent by nature and they need to bond completely to the flock (not humans) in order to do their job. From what I know, it's completely different than a herding dog like a German Shepherd that herds the flock; a LGD lives with the flock 24/7.

edited for typos

We were posting at the same time, but no LGD really aren't part of the family in a convential sense. They're very independent by nature and they need to bond completely to the flock (not humans) in order to do their job. From what I know, it's completely different than a herding dog like a German Shepherd that herds the flock; a LGD lives with the flock 24/7.

 
Ohhh thanks Tamara for clearing that up. I was assuming a Great Pyr would still need to bong with a "human family" and that it would have behavior problems if elft outdoors....like say a Labrador. But I guess I am wrong...so they just attach themselves to the livestock?
 
Sorry am not menaing to streal this thread with my questions

....getting a guard dog to protect from wild animals, but the pry should not have to protect itself from another "pet" dog, especially one that resides in the same household.

I am worried about Beauregard getting attacked or even killled by Ogre. I am sorry if this is harsh but I think you were irresponsible in getting a new puppy when Ogre is having so many problems.

I think you should have gotten this problem under control before even thinking about getting a new puppy.

 
I have been holding out to respond to this thread because I didn't want to come across as harsh, but Raja, I agree with you.
 
I would not bring a new dog into a home with an aggressive dog.  This isn't safe for anyone/thing involved. There is obviously work that needs to be done with Orgre before another dog should have been added. 
 
I am just as concerned that *if* Orgre doesn't kill this pup, then coyotes may.  A 6 week old pyr, is still only a 6 weeek old puppy.  If a coyote gets into the barn, then the puppy is very likely going to be injured or killed. 
 
I think that the OP may have rushed into this decision.  I hope, for the sakes of all parties involved, that everything works out well.