Back, sort of...LOTS to share!

He spent a few hours nipping their feet through the bars, tormenting them, and eventually causing one to die from shock before I caught him. I am STILL furious with him about it...and I decided right then that I was GOING to get a dog to guard my livestock- from coyotes, and from Ogre, should he escape again.

 
Schmee this is what they're referring to.

Brittany...
Also feel free to PM me about anything...Akita related or not.

Ah...I missed that.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles
He spent a few hours nipping their feet through the bars, tormenting them, and eventually causing one to die from shock before I caught him. I am STILL furious with him about it...and I decided right then that I was GOING to get a dog to guard my livestock- from coyotes, and from Ogre, should he escape again.

That's why I brought up my concerns on the first page, but then it sounds like Ratsicles has a good plan for keeping them separate. Of course I guess no matter how careful you are, accidents happen. You may be able to keep them separate for years and then there's the one day that he streaks past you when you open the door to his pen and tragedy happens...

That's really interesting what G33 said about Akitas not generalizing well in new environments. I have to be completely honest here though. After thinking about it more, considering the fact that he has now killed sooo many different small animals, how can he ever be trusted around them again? With a behaviorist's help or not, prey drive is a very strong thing and now he has experience with going after and killing the little animals. There would always be the chance that he could escape. So to me it sounds like maybe farm living is not the best situation for him.

I do think getting a Pyr is good for the livestock, the Ogre situation is the one I'm more concerned about.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

 If a farmer has a tractor for one purpose and it's broken and already needed a tractor for another purpose, does he not get the new tractor until the old one for an unrelated purpose is fixed? 

 
I don't get your analogy.  I had a tractor that wasn't very dependable.  You know what I did?  I sold it and bought another.  That just seemed to make better sense than getting 36 dogs and hoping they could cut and bale my hay.

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus


[ I have to be completely honest here though. After thinking about it more, considering the fact that he has now killed sooo many different small animals, how can he ever be trusted around them again? With a behaviorist's help or not, prey drive is a very strong thing and now he has experience with going after and killing the little animals. There would always be the chance that he could escape. So to me it sounds like maybe farm living is not the best situation for him.

I do think getting a Pyr is good for the livestock, the Ogre situation is the one I'm more concerned about.

 
I thought about that too - the kill is really a self-reinforcing thing...I think the focus would have to be on keeping him restricted from access to small animals - FOREVER - rather than trying to rehabilitate him to leave them alone if he does come in contact. 
 
Maybe a nice cushy outdoor kennel and some one-on-one attention and exercise is the answer for Ogre?  Granted, as other behavioral methods are explored too. 

I'm worried, ratsicles! For me, a dog killing several animals, attacking one of my other dogs and proving that he can escape an electrified fence is a deal breaker.  Were it myself, in order to prevent a real tragedy, such as him going on an animal and possible child killing spree, I'd have him euth'd. Yes, flame me but IMO this is what I would do.
 
I don't think getting another pup was the right thing either, but then, I don't know ratsicles and her capabilities either.
 
I sincerely hope things work out for you 

I don't get your analogy. I had a tractor that wasn't very dependable. You know what I did? I sold it and bought another. That just seemed to make better sense than getting 36 dogs and hoping they could cut and bale my hay.

Lol Billy.........but, it's true...... **Content Removed - Off Topic**

Akitas are a lot like Huskies, I have experience with Huskies, and what one does not want to do is let a right out kill against small animals take place, but if it does happen you are dealing with super serious issues.....the dog will do it again, as before mentioned high prey drive and the fact that the animal was successful at it already.

I hope the OP gets her farm going, but at this point I see serious problems coming down the pike.

I'm just saying to solve one problem before getting another responsability regardless where the new pup is going to be

I did find some information on the web confirming my suspicion that the Akita breed, as a whole, doesn't generalize well.
 
[linkhttp://www.tamarlane.com/akitatemp.htm]http://www.tamarlane.com/akitatemp.htm[/link]
 
Generalization

Another problem is the Akita's slowness in generalizing from a specific
learned behavior. For instance, when you begin teaching the sit, your
dog may be beside you in the heel position. Then you teach him sit in
front, then sit when he is away from you. A German Shepherd will quickly
learn to sit anywhere because he generalizes well. He is able to make the
connection that the same action is called for regardless of where he is
spatially. He will seem to understand the concept of "sit," so to speak.

Akitas, on the other hand, take much longer to go from the specific to the
general. Instead of expecting the dog to grasp the concept, you may
have to break the exercise into many component parts and teach each as
a separate step and then, chain them together. Some Akitas seem to have
an "Aha!" experience and suddenly get the point, while others never
have a clue.

They may have more trouble with some exercises than others. In
discussing this subject with a friend who is training an Akita in Open, she
said she thought it applied to the problem she had with teaching the
quarter turn. In this exercise, the dog and handler stand in a heel position
with the dog sitting. The handler then shifts her position, in place, a
quarter turn to the left. The dog must get up and reseat itself in the proper
heel position.

All the class Goldens learned to scoot into position without ever really
getting up, whie Teresa was still trying to teach her dog that when Teresa
moved, the dog had to move too. Obviously, they need to try a different
training method that takes into account a slower ability to generalize.

 
 
I also read several sites that describe Akita temperament.  Ogre is not doing anything that is out of line for his breed.  He is dog-aggressive and has a strong prey drive.  Almost every site I've looked at today states that the dog should 1) never be allowed to run off-leash with other dogs as they will always try to assert pack dominance and 2) should never, ever be allowed around livestock, period.
This may just be an unfortunate mismatch of the type of breed with the kind of lifestyle that Ratsicles leads. 
 

I don't really see a problem here.  I know almost everyone here has had a problem with their dog.  Dog aggression, separation anxiety, fear aggresssion...the list goes on and on.  You lean from the experiences and work on them.  Should Chewbecca(rebecca) get rid of Ella because she has severe dog aggression and that could turn into Ella attacking her son?  NO!  She works with Ella to overcome problems.  Brittney has said that she will work with Ogre.  She will put up a kennel if she needs to.  She will hire a behaviorist.  That is more than most people would do.  Many "farmers" would just shoot the dog.  I think she is doing the right thing in this situation!  Anyone that disagrees is entitled to their own opinion, but remember, all dogs have problems and giving up and just rehoming the dog or putting it to sleep is not the answer.  About Madison, I also think that Brittney made the right choice that was in the best interest of the dog.  She made plenty of effort and she made the choice she believed was right.
I see the Pyr as something completely different.  Maybe this is because I have been around working dogs and have had them.  Its completely different from having a pet dog.  Sure, they are still work, but the dog is there for a specific purpose.  I think it would be more detrimental to NOT have a LGD guarding the livestock from wild animals.  Should she just let her animals be killed by foxes, coyotes, and racoons?  I don't expect too many people who haven't lived on a farm with a LGD to completely understand this concept, and thats fine.  Everyone has their own opinion. 
It is not our place to judge Brittney and tell her that she was wrong for getting another dog.  She knows her capabilities and has already expressed the fact that she is willing to work with Ogre.  She has access to many great resources and I have no doubt that she will make the right decision.  Some people say I have too many animals(2 dogs, 1 rabbit, 1 chinchilla, 5 sugar gliders, 3 snakes, and 2 aquariums), but I am completely confident in caring for them all and if other people don't like it, then fine, I'm glad you don't have to help me take care of them!  Everyone has their own limitations and it is up to you to decide what you can and cannot handle.  Others cannot make that decision for you!
Now, that's all I have to say and I'm sure it will be debated a ton, but its all a matter of opinion.

ColleenC.....you are right......people are different and can handle different situations....but, my opinion in the past was based on this thread the OP posted..........draw your own conclusions, who knows this might get me red inked for speaking my mind......
 
 
[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=322017&mpage=1&key=񎧡]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=322017&mpage=1&key=񎧡[/link]

If she doesn't get a handle on this dog IMMEDIATELY, it is only a matter of time before he goes down the road and kills another farmer's livestock.  At that point, I guess, the Akita problem will be solved.

I'm not going to red ink you snownose,
I am only posting now, to let you know that what a person chooses to say, and how they choose to do that, can sometimes say a great deal about them...perhaps more about them, than the issue they address.

I'm not going to red ink you snownose,
I am only posting now, to let you know that what a person chooses to say, and how they choose to do that, can sometimes say a great deal about them...perhaps more about them, than the issue they address.

 
 
I hear ya, but, that works both ways.....doesn't it?