Back, sort of...LOTS to share!

ORIGINAL: Raja19

We were posting at the same time, but no LGD really aren't part of the family in a convential sense. They're very independent by nature and they need to bond completely to the flock (not humans) in order to do their job. From what I know, it's completely different than a herding dog like a German Shepherd that herds the flock; a LGD lives with the flock 24/7.

Ohhh thanks Tamara for clearing that up. I was assuming a Great Pyr would still need to bong with a "human family" and that it would have behavior problems if elft outdoors....like say a Labrador. But I guess I am wrong...so they just attach themselves to the livestock?

Sorry am not menaing to streal this thread with my questions

Yeah, they do need to be able to be handled by humans and learn a few commands, but for the most part they should bond and spend time with their flock. I found an excerpt from the link below:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2136&S=1

Training a livestock guardian breed for the traditional job is worlds apart from training the same dog as a pet. The working dog needs socialization to all kinds of humans so as not to freak out later when encountering them, but this socialization needs to be on a surface level. You don#%92t want the dog who will live in the pasture with the livestock to be miserable due to longing for human companionship. Therefore the dog#%92s early life is managed so as not to form strong bonds with people. Those bonds go instead to the livestock animals.

Similarly, you do not want to heavily socialize the future livestock guardian dog extensively to other dogs, since the dog will have to protect the sheep from them. The only dogs to socialize the livestock guardian with extensively would be other dogs the dog must accept because they also work on the place...

...The dog who will guard livestock needs a few command behaviors, mainly the ability to walk on a leash, come when called, sit and stay on command, and stop a behavior when told “no.” The dog who will be a family pet requires a lot more training as the means to managing that independent, strong-willed nature...

I am just as concerned that *if* Orgre doesn't kill this pup, then coyotes may. A 6 week old pyr, is still only a 6 weeek old puppy. If a coyote gets into the barn, then the puppy is very likely going to be injured or killed.

I think that the OP may have rushed into this decision. I hope, for the sakes of all parties involved, that everything works out well.

 
 
I could not have said it better!!!

I would like to point out a few things.

1. Ogre is not going anywhere period, and he IS under control. We are hiring a behaviorist and doing everything necessary to work on this issue.

2. A LGD is NOT a pet. It is NOT as if I just ran out and got a new puppy because I wanted one. If I wanted a pet, I would have gone to the shelter and adopted another pit bull- not a Pyr. Pyrs are not a breed I would choose as a pet. Ever. I'm not all that drawn to them for their pet qualities, to be honest. This dog is a WORKING dog. Not a pet. He will not be kept inside, he will never, ever, EVER come into contact with Ogre, unless Ogre escapes- and we are doing everything in our power to prevent him from escaping again. The pyr will be several acres away, with the goats and chickens- nowhere near the house and there are SEVERAL fences and some buildings seperating him from Ogre and my PET dogs. I would not, I repeat, NOT add a pet dog to the mix right now. I'm not stupid, as some of you seem to think I am.

3. I HIGHLY resent Madison being brought into this. I did not cause Madison's aggression issues. I took a dog that had been HORRIBLY neglected and abused, with a KNOWN history of aggression, and tried to fix her. I failed. I guess that makes me a bad person. Whatever.

4. Espencer, yes, Butter is 100% trustworthy with live chickens. Thanks for asking.

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6. I also seriously resent being told what I can and cannot handle as far as my animals go.


And finally, I am leaving this forum. I am shocked and the judgement calls made by people in this thread about me, my animals, my situation, and what I can handle. I know that I am a good pet owner, and I know that I am responsible. I am NOT giving up on Ogre, he is NOT out of control- he is simply prey driven and dog aggressive, which are both traits of his breed. I knew this when I got him, and we are simply going to have to retrain and rearrange our lives to manage him. He is not human aggressive, and I know better than to think that beause he kills chickens he will go on to bite people.

Again, I am leaving. I am amazed at how rude, hurtful, presumptuous and WRONG people can be about a person and their situation. Maybe I will come back in the future...but for now I am gone.

To all of those who defended me, thank you. To everyone else, I wish you a very unpleasant goodbye.

4.

ORIGINAL: AnimalLover505

I just wanted to jump in and defend her for a moment here, the other situation was totally unrelated and you shouldn't compare the two. If you'd read her entire thread about Madison you would know that she was rescued and already had aggression issues that needed to be dealt with. Totally different from a dog like an Akita who are well known for not adapting to new situations, and the not generalizing commands, etc.

I'm not comparing anything, impossible to be "totally" unrelated since they belong to the same owner, if the OP is so good to deal with Ogre, a new pup and a new farm, then dealing with the dog that was PTS was be piece of cake, but it didnt happen that way; i believe that at least for now the OP does not have the time or energy to deal with all together right now (she had less to deal with in the past and ended with a dog PTS)

The OP has a dog killing other animals, the stress of a new moving, the stress of having a farm, the stress of wild animals killing livestock BESIDES all those other problems on the thread snownose posted, do you think she has her hands full or not? does she really need to add another dog?

ORIGINAL: AnimalLover505

It may all go to hell, but it may go swimmingly as well. You just don't know.

On the best case is 50/50, flipping a coin, the bad thing is that the OP has A LOT to loose and almost nothing to win, if it goes well good, if not then it sounds that at least one more dog will be PTS.

 Lets flip a coin on a dog's life

And finally, I am leaving this forum. I am shocked and the judgement calls made by people in this thread about me, my animals, my situation, and what I can handle.

Okay, here's the thing. You recently posted in another discussion a litany of difficulties you were currently having; paranoia, depression, anxiety, PCOS, phobias, whathaveyou. Having disclosed all that, you are surprised that people are concerned that you might have taken on too much? Really? What did you want people to tell you?

They may be right or they may be wrong, but you invited discussion. I don't really understand then, where the offense is coming from and so strong that now you're leaving the board?

I mean, of course it is your perogative.
Paula

I'm not comparing anything, impossible to be "totally" unrelated since they belong to the same owner, if the OP is so good to deal with Ogre, a new pup and a new farm, then dealing with the dog that was PTS was be piece of cake,

I find that to be an ignorant and insulting remark. You're comparing dealing with a newly aggresive to small animals dog, a new LGD pup that won't be in contact with the family/animals, to dealing with an old dog with an entire life history of abuse, neglect, and aggresion?

I want to say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I'm afraid I'll get inked.

Alas, everyone has an opinion. Its just a shame your opinion has to have a tendency to turn threads ugly. [:-]

I get confused with the "response to" highlight in the lower right corner of the message. For example, Animallover's response says that it is in response to me (paulaedwina). Took me a minute to realize it really wasn't.

Can we fix that?
Paula

ORIGINAL: paulaedwina

And finally, I am leaving this forum. I am shocked and the judgement calls made by people in this thread about me, my animals, my situation, and what I can handle.

Okay, here's the thing. You recently posted in another discussion a litany of difficulties you were currently having; paranoia, depression, anxiety, PCOS, phobias, whathaveyou. Having disclosed all that, you are surprised that people are concerned that you might have taken on too much? Really? What did you want people to tell you?

They may be right or they may be wrong, but you invited discussion. I don't really understand then, where the offense is coming from and so strong that now you're leaving the board?

I mean, of course it is your perogative.
Paula

My thoughts exactly. Why are you posting a littany of personal, mental, medical and now dog- and livestock-related problems on a public internet board and are then shocked and awed when people actually REMEMBER these things and question some of your decisions? Show concern for your state of well-being and that of the animals in your care? Not one person here said that you were stupid, or a bad person...and yet you clearly "heard" that. Are you willing to give that up?

ORIGINAL: AnimalLover505

You're comparing dealing with a newly aggresive to small animals dog, a new LGD pup that won't be in contact with the family/animals, to dealing with an old dog with an entire life history of abuse, neglect, and aggresion?

If you read about dog psychology you would now that any personal problems that the owner has tend to affect the dogs directly. Again, i am N-O-T comparing anything (just as i said on my other post) but they have the same owner, and in this case the owner personal problems might play a huge part on the situation of both examples

The rest of your response is off topic

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