Am I wrong to be soo upset?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Am I wrong to be soo upset?

    Well, Madison spent the night with my dad last night.  I thought, good, a night off!  Well, I get to my dad's house today to pick her up only to find out that she had just got a spanking for trying to slap some pants out of my dad's hand.  Okay, not a big deal, she knows better.  I tell Maddy to put her shoes on and come outside with me.  I put the shoes in front of her so she will know which shoe goes on which foot.  I go in the kitchen to get some drink only to hear my dad hollering at Madison.  She had apparently thrown her shoes on the floor as soon as I turned my back.  I came back into the living room and told her to pick her shoes up and put them on.  She doesn't listen, which makes Dad madder than he already was.  He looks at me and tells me to go outside.  I went to the back door and pretended to go out.  After he tells Madison 5 more times to pick her shoes up, I her him spank her again.  I'm fine with this.  She should have listened.  When I go out to load the car and put Madison in her booster seat, she refuses to get out of the car so I can put her seat in.  Dad is there and tells her 4 times to get out of the car, she doesn't so he grabs her and makes her get out.  Madison goes crazy and starts scratching the car door like a dog would.  My hands were full so Dad got her again.  When he tells her to get in the car, she doesn't and he picked her up and put her in.  He then looks at me and says "Until you get her under control, cool it on comming over here."  My heart sank.  Me and Dad have always been close but when he said that, I felt like he had torn my heart out.  I tried to be strong and tell him that I understood but of coarse, I started crying.  Guys, I have tried EVERYTHING with this child.  Time-out, spanking, taking things away from her, and all that seems to do is make her mad.  I cannot control her.  She is only 3 but I cannot seem to get her to mind and because of this, I cannot go and visit my dad.  It's bad that I can get 2 pitties to mind but I can't do the same with my daughter.  I am at a dead end here.  Where do I even begin trying to turn things around?  Sorry for the long post.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, as for the parenting, I don't have experience with that so much. I do think what your dad said was insensitive. I'm sure you are a great mother and he should be helping you, not insulting your parenting skills. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Don't feel bad, I'd cry too. Nothing hurts like having your parents say something like that to you. I'm sure some of the moms in the group will have some better advice for the parenting stuff.
    • Gold Top Dog
    It doesn't matter what some people say about me.  I could care less.  But when it comes from my dad, it hurts more.  I mean, someone can tell me that I'm a sorry piece of trash and it doesn't bother me but if my dad were to say that to me, it would kill me.  I know that he's already raised his kids but lets face it, times were different when my sis and I were growing up.  He keeps telling me to "wear Maddy's ass out"  I tried to explain to him that when I do spank her, it only makes her mad.  He then tells me that I am not spanking her "good enough"  The only way that I can spank her "good enough" is with a belt.  I don't want to do that.  I'm just at a loss here.  I've been crying all evening and wondering what I should do.  I guess I'll just stay away from my dad's for a while.  I hate to do that but that's all I can think to do at this moment
    • Gold Top Dog
    Have you thought about finding a therapist or a counselor or heck, even someone like a life coach who can help you figure out a way that WILL work? If you can't control her now, it's only going to get worse as she gets older, and kids need- and are happier with- boundaries and rules.

    Too bad there aren't training classes for kids, eh?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sis told me that I needed Super Nanny.  Trust me, I've thought about applying for her show!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have no kids, but my nieces have lived with me from time to time.  They are 7 & 8 now, but as I remember 2 was a horrible age for both of them.  They were total monsters! 
     
    I hope that Maddie is just going through a bad stage & things will improve for you both!
    • Gold Top Dog
    sounds like there is a communication breakdown. i dont want to delve into your personal life but is her dad around or some kind of father figure besides your dad?
    my husband can get our son to do things that i cant, and then again i can get him to do things my husband cant. its confusing for our kid sometimes because we dont always stick with the same method of .. um.. training i guess you would call it. Like for example... our son would pitch a royal hissy fit if i put him the SHOWER to clean him up after dinner. i made sure the temp. was perfect, put a toy in there to play with, all that stuff to make it fun... didnt work. So when my husband took over kid duties after i had surgery i saw him heading for the shower with our son. i warned him not to do it, it was bad.... but he just put him right in the shower stall, turned on the water and cleaned him up with no fuss. not a peep!
    and when we come back from grandma's house, who lives nextdoor, my kid is digging his heels in the whole way home, pulling away, crying, etc. making a scene...if i pick him up he gets louder and tries to squirm away.. but if i my husband does it... the kid is fine! all i can think is.. what a brat! he doesnt always resist me though.sometimes he does the same to my husband on certain things. for the most part we keep things simple, like... most times we forget the high chair and spill-proof sippy cup. we just let him sit at the dinner table with a short plastic cup of milk and he does great. but it seems when i try to accommodate the toddler in him (he's only 17 months old) is when he gets bull headed.
    if it had been me in your shoes, picking her up from her grandads, if she hadnt put her shoes on the first time i would have done it for her. and if she refused to get in the booster seat on the first request i would have done that for her as well. there comes a time when you have to stop asking and just do it.
    just like your dog... how many times do you have to say sit before he sits? Sit is a one syllable word... not three syllables not four.. at some point you have to show him what you mean.. even if he already knows it.
    my mother in law showed me that trick with my son. she raised three boys into very fine upstanding men with their own well disciplined children, so she HAS to know something right? When she saw me telling Cajah(our son) over and over again to not tough grampa's glasses and then finally giving up and moving the glasses up higher she said he was testing my limits. he was poking and prodding to see how far he could get with those glasses. and she was right... i had to stop asking and asking and expecting. Saying it one time is enough. if they dont do it (and i dont mean when they cant comprehend like asking them to go get their cup - but then they are refusing flat out) then its time to show them exactly what you mean.
    i personally would reserve the spanking for the REALLY bad stuff.. like slapping something out of someones hands or pulling away from you when you try to lead them somewhere... to me thats the sort of thing that means the most, to go with mom or dad despite their own agenda - for emergency purposes mostly. who has time to wrestle with a toddler if your car is stalled on a train track?
     my son will slap things away when he's upset over something, usually when i shoo him out of the kitchen or i make him sit down in his chair. he KNOWS what sit means, he will even say "Sit" when he wants to get in the high chair. but when he thinks i'm not looking or if my hands are full he'll stand up and turn around -dangerous! So when i go to him and say sit, i wait for him to obey, most times he will, most times he wont so i make him sit down when he wont.. he cries in protest.. then i try to distract him and get him to remember he is the chair to eat his snack and drink his juice.. a privilege. depending how mad he is he'll try to slap it away or take the cup and throw it over the side lol of course.. when he does that he doesnt get it back and i ignore the temper tantrum OR try to do something to make him laugh. kids dont know what to expect when you do that kind of thing. he is red faced and screaming and then suddenly mom is tickling him mercilessly, screaming soon gives way to laughing and he forgets all about why he was mad.

    these are just some things that i do.... i'm a first time mom and i'm trying to apply what i learned from being a kid as well as getting adived from mom's from the trenches of motherhood.... i can remember pretty far back into my childhood and i remember being frustrated and annoyed at the adults in my life. i remember once sitting on the counter top "helping" my mom prepare dinner... the raw hamburger meat looked tasty... but she wouldnt let me eat it. so i got mad. i was only three and didnt know better, but i thought my mom was a jerk because she wouldnt let me have what i wanted.i also didnt want to wear that itchy ugly red dress with the lace and pantyhose... she had to FIGHT with me to get it on... my brother took pictures... [8|]  i can also remember going to the beach with my dad and wandering off to find my mom. she wasnt there of course, but it didnt stop me from searching through a crowd of strangers until my dad found me. he beat my butt too, and i thought he was a jerk as well.
    So... i say stand back and look at the world through her eyes for a moment and see if you can find a way to show her what you want. if you can train a bulldog you can certainly train a toddler, i have faith in that much.

    anyway, like i said, thats how i do things with my own kid. i've also helped with my cousin's two hellions. i can get them to mind me when she cant. they hate my guts too lol but they will jump up and obey like little soldiers any time i tell them to do something even if all i say is "Do what your mom tells you!" but i do things different than her. i dont ask them to do anything. i tell them... then i make them do it. "Sit here"*plop*, "Put that down"*take-away*,
    sooner or later they get the hang of it.
    i think your kid is just testing you.. its not abnormal, i dont think you need counseling YET.... but i am going by a limited amount of information. Super Nanny has some great methods and ideas, but she does the same thing the Dog Whisperer does.... Calm and Assertive. [:D
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh no poor you! [:(]  I would be utterly gutted if that happened to me, I really would.
     
    I think when William gets to that age, the mantra I hope I will keep repeating to myself is; "follow through".  I hope I wouldn't put shoes down and leave him to put them on.... I would put the shoes down and get him to put them on and praise him for doing it, how good it is that he got them on the right way round/did them up by himself/whatever (even if you helped with that in the first place).  If she HAD done it right, you would not have been there to praise her for it.  And she is probably smart enough to realise your dad wouldn't have praised her either.  So, she wants attention... in this instance, the best way, act up and get a spanking.  Is this typical of how a lot of "scenes" play out or was this unusual?  Does she nap in the day at all?  Did she miss a nap that day?
     
    How many times do we tell puppy owners not to let their puppies out but to go with them so they can MAKE SURE they "go" and REWARD them for getting it right?  I know this is going to be hard to apply all the time.  I really hope I will be able to stick to it when it's my turn!!!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm not sure how to post without sounding like I'm being critical of an entire generation......bottom line is that when MY generation burned our bras and decided to have it all, the kids lost out on the presence of Mom always in the home and setting the standards.  The "good old days" were not so good for a child who didn't comply immediately.....spankings and "the belt" were the norm and that's just HOW you raised kids.  Instant compliance and blind obedience were expected and if not given, well, we paid with our bare little butts.  Now we have a generation of kids who grew up without that kind of stuff and don't have a clue how to deal with the tough stuff because they weren't shown by example.
     
    I tossed MOST of the examples of my childhood in the trash....I didn't spank and I never made a threat that I didn't mean.  When I said I would X, my kids knew that I meant it...so many parents threaten a punishment and have absolutely no intention of "breaking an arm" if the child doesn't stop slapping.
     
    I can totally empathise with a kid who has nothing that matters.  I had one of those.  My youngest son is ADHD, has some nasty emotional baggage courtesy of his "father", the sperm donor who never did anything to be a parent and makes a MULE look compliant and sweet.  Time outs didn't work, restrictions didnt' work, he would LAUGH at spankings as a little boy (much of the reason I gave up the rare spanking....it was too freaking frustrating).  My oldest son was a walk in the park to raise....he respected me and even as a teenager we could communicate.  They youngest, well, he was the ultimate challenge.
     
    This is gonna sound mean and I honestly don't mean it to be.  But, banish right now, the thot that you can't visit your dad because of your daughter.  It isn't HER fault.  I know it seems like it is, but it's YOUR job to mold her into a decent member of society, not hers to be perfect.  Don't let the thought linger in your mind that your child is keeping you from your dad or you will grow to totally resent her and that's gonna show.  And please understand that I'm not being critical of you as a parent....I'm simply trying to prevent you from really starting to dislike your child if that makes sense.
     
    I agree with "make a request once".  That works with most kids.......and it likely won't for a good long time with your daughter.  Be firm, be fair and BE CONSISTENT......just like you would with your dogs.  In time tho, it will work.....most of the time.  Now and then a really challenging child comes along, and it sounds like she might be one of them, and the BEST thing you can do is set clear boundaries and be ubber consistent in enforcing them.  YOU staying in control is the best way to show her how to be in control.  I had every toy in the book...the stress stone, the stress squeezy ball, the hidden punching bag...when my youngest was such a challenge.....but HE seemed to delight in getting me to "loose it" and by golly I could not give him that satisfaction.  The old saying he who speaks first looses really should be ammended to "he who looses it first, looses". [:o]  Most of all, if you EXPECT compliance you are more likely to GET compliance.
     
    The shoes, the car, those all sound like attention getting devices to me, and if she gets even negative attention, well, she'll take it.  So you need to set the stage with clear and consistent expectations and being PART of those expectations all the time.  It's tough....it's darned HARD work....but it will pay off in time.  Just not a SHORT time.  If she doesn't put her shoes on, YOU put her shoes on.....no expressions of disappointment, no scolding, just do it matter of factly and move on.  Eventually she will see that she isn't going to get your goat, she isn't going to get the expected reaction, and it becomes no fun to resist.
     
    Please know that I'm not being critical.  I've been there, done that and bought the danged tshirt, so I'm trying to share my experience and I'm probably not doing it well.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think you put it very well.  Words I shall harbour hopefully 2 or 3 yrs from nlw.  What I think you are saying is: Don't lose your dignity and indulge in a battle....
    • Gold Top Dog
    the only thing I can say is, it sounds to me like your daughter is frustrated with something.

    We as parents (and I'm raising two boys, both past the age of 3) have to remember where our children are at at their age.
    I think I've posted this for you before, but age 3 is the MOST trying age. She's testing her independence and wanting to be a "big girl", but she is limited as to what she can do and what she knows. The key (and it's the hardest part, I think) is to give her options, but keep the control by LIMITING her options. It's also hard because a mistake a LOT of parents make is to praise the child for EVERY little thing they do. Yes, praise is awesome and will build her self-esteem, but praising her ALL THE TIME, will make you end up with a child who believes she doesn't have to put much effort into a lot of things. Once your daughter learns a new task, it's not wrong to not praise her as much because you want her to learn that with her new independence comes the expectation of her doing things she has learned. It's a difficult balance because if given too much independence, they want and expect it all the time. The temper tantrums come from her limitations, usually frustration. And it might not even be from frustration from something you're doing, but frustrations from her not being able to developmentally do something. My youngest son (7 now) learned early on that temper tantrums got him nothing. We took breaks. I ignored his bad behavior as best I could because any reaction (whether it be anger from me, or me trying to "soothe" him through the tantrum) was attention and a reinforcement of sorts for the behavior. She wants a reaction from you, mom, she's exerting herself and wants control.
    If my son started throwing a temper tantrum in the store, we left the store. No spankings, because by the time we made it out to the car, he'd forget what he had done. IF you're going to spank for a bad behavior, you should do it immediately during the bad behavior. Waiting until "we get out to the car!" is pointless. The child has moved on and when you punish her you're really punishing her for nothing, if the punishment takes place after the fact. I'm not saying you're doing this, but a lot of parents do.

    Trust me when I say that generally and typically, three years old is the age she'll be her most active and for toddler age, it'll be the age that drives you most insane.

    ETA: And I'm not just saying this as experience from being a parent, I'm saying this as someone who is studying this in college and has almost completed two courses that deals exactly with children's behaviors, their physical development and what exactly they're capable of doing at specific ages/stages.
    • Gold Top Dog
    As a mother I would say that your daughter wants attention period....good or bad.  I remember I would have a marble jar and that the kids would earn a marble for doing good things in theirjar and when they earned a certain amount they got to get something or do something extra special.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Firestorm

    As a mother I would say that your daughter wants attention period....good or bad. I remember I would have a marble jar and that the kids would earn a marble for doing good things in theirjar and when they earned a certain amount they got to get something or do something extra special.


    This is an excellent idea. As others have also posted excellent ideas.
    See, I'm better at giving the reasons why rather than giving ideas on how to fix it or distract her from behaviors.
    I apologize for that.[:D]
    • Silver
    Try not to be too mad at your dad, he was probably just so fed up. He had a rough night with her.
    Is there any parenting classes you could go to around you? Kids know whether their parent will follow through with their threats, you have to follow through every single time, no letting stuff get by. Say what you want once and if she doesn't obey, put her in her room or take her home and put her in her room. It will take a while, but eventually it will dawn on her that what mom says, she means.
    Don't whine or nag at her, state what you want and it she refuses put her in her room. There will be times you have to leave places when you don't want to, but in the long run your life will be easier and your daughter will probably be happier too.
    Good luck, motherhood is probably the toughest job you'll ever have.
    • Gold Top Dog
    It may help, it may not (depends on the philosophy of the school district and how scarce the resources),,, but contact your local school district.  Some districts have preschools, behavior can be one way to qualify.  Also, some school psychologists and guidance counselors run parenting programs or could help you.