Parental Advice Needed

    • Gold Top Dog

    Parental Advice Needed

    I have a 3 year old daughter named Madison.  I love my baby very much but lately, she is getting out of control!  She is an ANGEL when I am not around but as soon as I come back, she changes into a little terror.  She screams at me and back talks.  When I tell her to do something, she screams "NO".  I have tried spanking her but that just makes her madder and the only way to keep her in time out it to hog-tie her!  I am going to go crazy.  I stay at home with her all day and by the time bedtime rolls around, I am so ill and stressed out that I can't even see straight.  I just don't get it.  She can be so sweet at times and so mean at others.  My husband tells her once what to do and she does it.  I can tell her til I'm blue in the face and all I get is lip.  I need some advice here.  All my family keeps telling me is to "get a handle on her now"  My dad was not against spanking me or my sister and he just tells me that I am not doing it right.  Any and all advice will be useful
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wish that I had some really profound advice for you but I really don't.  I will say that I hope that you can get this figured out.
    • Gold Top Dog
    hold tight and breathe deeply. trying to control her is futile, she is a normal 3 yo. anyone who says "my kids never acted like that" is a straight up liar. my 3 yo has recently discovered tantrums as well, it's a real blast i know. they are only doing it because they are frustrated and full of energy and don't know how to properly deal with it, so it all comes out in little fits. she does it around you because she trusts you, you are her nurturer, she feels she can let loose around you. which really is a good thing, it may not seem like it now, but it really is. tact will come to her in time (think 30-40 years [:D] ) just set a good example in the mean time. hang in there! 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I hope everything will work out but my only worry is, if she is this bad now, what is she gonna be like when she is 15?
    • Gold Top Dog
    what is she gonna be like when she is 15?


    my mother and my art teacher both told me my oldest will do every bad thing i ever did times 10.  [:o]
    • Gold Top Dog
    my mom told me the same thing.  I now know what she went through!  I love my daughter to no end but there ar times that I can't stand to be around her.  I feel like I am being a bad parent[&o]
    • Gold Top Dog
    This may sound absolutely ridiculous....but have you tried looking at it the way you would look at training a pup?  She's testing her boundaries, perhaps even picking/playing favorites.
     
    Who is the disciplinarian of the house?  Mom or dad?  If it's you...I wouldn't be surprised she's favoring dad at present.  Kids are opportunists, and they go for the one that gives them the best chance of getting their way.  Three year olds, like puppies, can't be spiteful...they're not old enough to comprehend such a notion.  She's testing the waters and trying to figure out ways to expend energy.
     
    Sometimes they're just downright tired....when Strauss was a puppy, he'd get kind of pissy when he got tired....I kid you not.  He'd get nippy and vocal, and downright snotty!  Of course, you can kennel a puppy and give them a break.
     
    One thing that may help, is watching dad and daughter interact for a moment.  Try and figure out what he's doing that you aren't (it may well be nothing).  Another thing is standing together.  If you don't band together now, it'll be real hell when she gets older.  You're going to have to find the right balance of "You can go to dad for this" in order to allow her to feel secure, and "Nope, sorry, this is how it is".
     
    The secret seems to lie within the parents....united you stand, divided you fall.  While three year olds can't be spiteful, I've noticed that between 3-7 they're figuring out how to manipulate (and some of the younger ones are shockingly good at it), see what she does.  Write out things with hubby that you can both agree on for discipline and rewards.
     
    Part of this is just being a normal child, and it too, shall pass.  But I gotta tell ya, growing up with 4 siblings (with me being the oldest)....I hated the "NO!" phase...because I was the one stuck babysitting, and I have absolutely NO patience for that crap.
     
    I give you a sincere and hearty good luck!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm gonna promise you I'm not lying.....my oldest NEVER acted like that.  My YOUNGEST made up for both of them.
     
    Clear and consistent perameters, CALM and consistent interaction with the child, and IGNORE the behavior you don't want and praise the behavior you do want.  She is challenging you big time and she'll continue to do it because it upsets you so.....she wins even if you hog tie her in the corner.  Attack the BEHAVIOR and never the CHILD.  I don't believe in spanking children or dogs for that matter, but that's me.  *I* think that striking a child shows them  first, that the  only way you can deal with a frustrating situation is through violence and second, that it's ok to hit someone if you are bigger than they are....not a message I wanted to pass on.
     
    Try adding in some consequences, and try making HER actions directly responsible for her consequences.  I found my youngest VERY frustrating because there was nothing he cared enough about that I could take away as a consequence.....yes, he actually DID but he wouldn't let on that he did.  Try making every rule FIT a pattern....ie:  she is to wash her hands before she eats....no washed hands, no food, but YOU can sit down and eat without her.  I promise you she won't starve to death.  She'll cave.  BUT you have to be firm, calm and consistent.
     
    And yeah, be ready for the roller coast ride of your life when she gets older......CHILDREN are why we end up with gray hair and wrinkles.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Actually,  I have seen numerous folks who are good in the dog training venue do just as good a job as parents.  The principles cross species quite nicely.  The use of selective attention, management, access to desired objects and activities, narrowing behavior choices to only correct or acceptable options.  Gee sounds like a lot of the parent conferences I am in.  You are right on target Xeph.

    Depending on where you live and how truly problematic the behavior is, you may be able to get assistance at a special needs preschool associated with your local school district.  You can also go to the library and look for parenting books.  I hate to admit it in some ways,  but watch episodes of Super Nanny. 

    One of the main things that has happened involves the social attention your daughter has received.  In the beginning, bad behavior was recognized.  Example.  Toddler on the floor playing quietly.  Mom doing something at counter.  Mom's attention directed at task.  Toddler looses interest in whatever, sees mom's leg decides to test teeth.  Mom screams, all sorts of attention occurs.  Repeated incidents like this, kid doing something acceptable which is not recognized so that other tasks can be accomplished.  Inappropriate behavior gets all the attention.  Kid learns real fast how to push buttons.

    Arguing, screaming and tantruming almost always result in maintaining social attention, gaining access to something desired, or avoiding a task or situation.  So, since it worked it stays around.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Been there, done that and I feel your pain......

    When my oldest (she's 5) acted like that I simply told her, "Go away, I don't like you when you are like this.  Leave me alone until you can be nice."  And then I'd walk away.....

    She used to hate that...I'd ignore her until she acted appropriately.  I never used time out....
    One time I got so mad at her I made her box up her toys with me and put them in the garage until I deemed it was appropriate for her to have them back...took about a week. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Now you may call me a liar, but my 3 boys never acted like that.  The oldest one became a bit of a management issue, toward his mother, at about 15.  One night, I knocked him out in the middle of the kitchen floor and that was the end of any respect problems between him and his mother.
     
    Frankly, if I had a 3 year old behaving as you have described, I would knock her on her ass.
    • Gold Top Dog
    This will be long, so bear with! To paraphrase Elvis, you're caught in a trap. The most attention she gets from you, at least it sounds like, is negative. But kids don't care, attention is attention, even if it's arguing and yelling. Fighting with Mommy is almost as good as reading with Mommy, because hey, Mommy is paying attention to only you, and sometimes you actually get what you want to do! This is a combination of several different therapies. I've found combining them works really well.
    First off, and probably most importantly, add some "special play time" just for you and she. Fifteen minutes everyday where you and she play with no distractions. EVERY DAY! Don't answer the phone, don't get up to take care of any other kids, anything. Don't ask questions during this. Just comment on what she's doing. "Oh, you're putting the blue block inside the red car!". You'd be amazed at how many questions we ask kids throughout the day. Spend this time concentrating on her actions. Be free with the praise and the physical affection. "Wow, that's a really pretty unicorn you colored! I like all the colors!" Give her pats on the back, pet her hair, give her hugs. Very often just increasing the positive attention will eliminate many problems. Really! And never take away special play time because of behavior. She can be a montrous beast all day and you want nothing but a plane ticket to the Bahamas, but you still need to do this.
    Second: NILIF works for kids too! I made up a coupon system for oldest when we were having troubles. I printed off a bunch of Care Bears (at that time her favorite character) and she had to earn a coupon with good behavior. She could turn in her coupons for TV time, treats, trips to the park, etc. I didn't ever make reading a book or physical affection, or the special play time coupon related though. We made up a picture chart of things she needed to work on. Have her help develop this. "Madison, you know things aren't so great around here lately. Sometimes you don't do what Daddy and I want, and sometimes Mommy and Daddy get mad and I know you don't like that either. So we're going to try some new things to make it a happier place around here for everybody. What things do you think need to change?" ALWAYS include you and your husband in the "instructions" because you have to present a united front, even if he doesn't have problems disciplining her. Most kids will be harder on themselves than you will be as far as developing the requirements! My own daughter really responded well to this approach. It's the same thing as stickers, tokens, etc., it's just more personalized and so the kids like it better.
    Third:  implement something like "1, 2, 3 Magic". It really IS magic! Tell her what you want her to do. If she doesn't do it right away, you count 1, 2, 3. If she hasn't done it she goes immediately to time out. And if you need to hold her in time out, that's okay. You sit cross legged on the floor and hold her in your lap, wrapping your arms around her and holding her arms crossed in front of her by the wrists (gently!). If she's kicking, you uncross your legs and gently lay them over top of hers. She might struggle the first few times, but she will stop and then take her time out. When kids get out of control they are scared. They are looking to you to keep them in control. This is not physical violence like spanking, it is a way of containment. Compare it to the cradle hold you use on dogs. When time out is over, I always ask "What did you do to get a time out?" and if she can't tell me (sometimes they really don't know they're so worked up) I tell her, and then tell her what she SHOULD have done. Then the incident is over. DO NOT keep saying things about it. Move on. Oh, and the standard for time outs is one minute per age, but I don't really follow that all the time. If you watch young kids in time out, they cycle. First they're upset, then they calm down, then they start to ramp up again. Some kids, if you wait the full minutes per age recommendation, are actually re-worked up. I watch the kids, and when they get to that calmer plateau, then I end it. Now when they get a little older, I set a timer so they can see. It kind of depends on the kid. Sometimes the timer thing will backfire because kids will just bide their time. So I really try and tailor the time out to the kid.

    What all this does is address the three issues needed to change behavior: improving the relationship, earning rewards and addressing misbehavior. Spanking only addresses misbehavior, and will ultimately hurt the relationship. Think about it like a job. At job A, what if every time you messed up a job, or made a typo in a report, you got docked in your pay? Yes, you might eventually learn to be more careful, but maybe not. Maybe you can afford to lose whatever they're docking you for each incident. Plus, you probably won't like your job. But at job B, your boss has regular performance reviews where you hear how good you ARE doing, you get raises for your good work, and when you do mess up, it's brought to your attention and the boss talks with you about correcting it, well, which job would YOU rather have? Spanking is like job A. Some kids, sometimes it does work, but many kids can "afford" the punishment and will continue the behavior because the other rewards balance. The only way to "do it right", all due respect to your father, is to escalate the pain. Is that really what you want to do?

    One last thing, I imagine the difference between you and your husband's style of discipline is that you argue and negotiate with her and he simply tells her and that's the end of it. She likely knows that if she puts up a fussI she gets attention from you. If she knows that you will no longer take her bait, then she will eventually stop. But I will tell you what I told ALL my clients . . . it WILL get worse before it gets better. Batten down the hatches and plan with your DH how this will play out for a couple of weeks. Since you will bearing the brunt of it, he needs to watch her while you have some free time in the evenings or weekends. You need to be at the top of your game and to have time to yourself. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    BOTH my kids were worse at 3 than at 2..so I don't know where terrible two's comes from!
    I send Elias to his room...but he stays there...it doesn't occur to him that he can leave without asking...because everytime he's done it in past I put him right back. His thing is slamming doors and yelling and trashing his room, so the door must remain OPEN and he must remain on his bed the whole time or he will be in there A LONG TIME...lol!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh and Elias is a YELLER...which he gets from me..freely admitted. We used to have yelling matches...but now I just WHISPER and he gets SOOOO mad lmao. Cuz he can't hear me...I will say "go to your room"...in his mid yelling fit...a couple time...he really has to listen because I speak low...almost whisper...and then he walks off to his room. I also start singing 10 little monkeys when he yells at me and dance around...it's so silly we both usually end up laughing....me becuase it's HILARIOUS to watch him trying to stay mad and make me stop singing and dancing and not laugh himself...
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

    I also start singing 10 little monkeys when he yells at me and dance around...it's so silly we both usually end up laughing....me becuase it's HILARIOUS to watch him trying to stay mad and make me stop singing and dancing and not laugh himself...


    I forgot that one Gina, that's an excellent tactic and one that works really well on my now 6 year old. However, I have discovered that 4 year olds have no sense of humor! I found 4 to be the worst age, at least for Em. She could argue on a more advanced level, usuing REASON (how dare she!) but still had that 2 and 3 year old temper. I think you're right, 3 is worse than 2, 4 is worse than 3 and at 5 they start leveling out. Notice I said "start"!