Spinoff discussion on religion from the "saving" thread

    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: HKdog.

    I don't understand something though, if you don't follow this guys list of 10 rules, you will, burn, suffer pain fire damnation smoke for ever and ever and ever....but he loves you???? And he's always broke and needs money....Some all powerful invisible man that can send you to a place where you suffer forever and ever if you don't do what he or someone else interprets as the "thing" to do, (they still love you though)  but he always seems to be broke and needing money



     
    HKdog,  just think of them as the 10 *suggestions* - it makes life a little easier. [:)]
     
    Joyce
    • Gold Top Dog
    The first 3....kind of spooky, don't know what they mean, (don't really care) but doesn't most halfway self respecting person follow the other 7 even if they don't believe in them or not? Kind of some common sense ones doncha think? Don't sleep around on your wife...Well...duh! She'll cut your wang off! Dont mess with your neighbors wife....He'll cut your wang off! Don't steal, yea....everyone has at least one time or another. pens from the office that sort of thing. Honor mother and father....that one depends on the parents and how they are as parents...the rest of them I don't really remember, except for don't kill...That one can be interpreted to be ok depending on the situation....
    So pretty much everyone follows them, if they are religious or not...Im not, my family wasn't much either... but I like to think I was raised properly enough not to do the last 7...Minus the pens from the office, staples some printer paper when I was out at home...
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: HKdog
    My mother was raised catholic, the church told her after we were born that she had to donate 10% to the church or we couldn't be baptized, my mother could hardly put food in our mouths and then the church wanted what little extra she had? Yeap, what a great way to win over the poor ignorant masses.


    It wasn't done to win over the masses.  It was done to build all those beautiful stone churches and provide perpetual care to the priests and nuns.  Not a bad gig for them, eh?  Too bad they have to sell off so many of the edifices to pay for what went on within...

    The Blackrobes got sainthood, "settlers" got Oklahoma, the Appaloosa horse was nearly a memory, and the native people of this continent got what?  Welcomed into heaven after they died from smallpox infected blankets?  That's what religion can do if we aren't careful.   These threads give me the willies - I hear the cries of the Hurons, the Cherokee, and the Nez Perce in the zealous responses about the one true god and how to get to "heaven".  Is Jehovah really different from Manitou, Wakan Tanka, or your god?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sounds like a "good" way to live by someone else's idea of what is right and wrong....honestly sounds like a waste of time that could be spent on other better things....
    • Gold Top Dog
    HKdog - the New Testament says that Jesus fulfilled the law. As with anything in the Bible this can be interpreted many ways, but many Christians take this to mean that Jesus's sacrifice means that he suffered death and damnation for the violation of those commandments on your behalf, and you no longer will even if (even though) you will violate those 10 commandments. According to Protestant beliefs, no one can keep the commandments, and no one ever could since the fall of Adam & Eve. In OT days people used to make blood sacrifices (of animals) to atone for their sins. Jesus's death also replaced those blood sacrifices, permanently.
    • Gold Top Dog
    oooooohhhh.....poop!!!
    so I'm supposed to feel bad because someone else can't hold on to those "beliefs" Don't understand???
    Not trying to be a smart a$$ but....???? huh? I'm not either or any...of those....
    And who is He???
    Just never really made sense to me....some, guy I don't know, with some other guy allllllll by himself......on a mountain, telling me how to live my life....and if I don't you burn, suffer pain, fire,smoke, choking, suffering, forever and ever until you say his name as the ONE???? So everyone else is wrong and going to hell? And what is hell? Is it here on earth or someplace else?
    • Gold Top Dog
    HKdog... I'm not actually a Christian myself (anymore), just trying to explain the ideas for you... I think it does us all good to at least understand each other, you know? [sm=peace.gif]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I hope you don't think i'm anti religion or something...I'm not, I actually think it's a good thing for some people to have something to believe in. Catholic, christian, amish, jewish, buddist, islam, snake handlers....
     Especially when you have nothing else left.  The things that  I don't understand is how there is so many different ones and they all pretty much say the same things. Even Buddism, 4 truths and the eightfold path is pretty close to a lot of the other religions if you think about it. They all have the same basic ideas,  respect yourself, others, don't kill, be honest, live your life right....
    Even Islam, If you actually read the koran it's a peacefull religion. And  believe it or not, women are respected and supposed to be treated with kindness. Whats going on now in some cults of islam is a really bad prostution of a good thing.
    So why are they all the same, (pretty much) but all different and think their version is better than anothers? 
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, I suppose that the simple answer is that everyone always thinks that they are right and don't look at the whole picture.  ;)

    I don't see what's wrong with person A thinking that their religion is right and person B thinking their religion is right and person C thinking no religion is right and person D thinking all religions are equally right so long as all the people let the others practise what they believe.  I say whatever floats your boat.

    As a Christian, I obviously believe the majority of Christian beliefs.  (Some of the really petty things to me are just doctrine differences and I don't focus on them).  If I didn't believe in this set of beliefs, then I wouldn't be a Christian. Just because I don't believe in another religion doesn't mean that i don't learn about them, respect them, and accept them as a valid set of beliefs for other people.  Not all Christians run around whacking people over the head with a Bible.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Isn't a Lutheran just a Catholic who doesn't drink?  [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I've always been an athiest. I wasn't raised religious, and I don't plan on converting anytime soon. I don't believe in heaven or hell, nor any higher being/entity.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: probe1957

    Isn't a Lutheran just a Catholic who doesn't drink?  [:)]


    Believe me Billy, Lutherans drink.....[:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    My understanding of the dilemma of forgiveness comes from personal experience. I'm not a religious person, but I do very much believe in God as a kind and loving being that gives us both unconditional love and eternal forgiveness. Forgiveness is an amazing gift that few people I have met can truly appreciate. No one can quite believe that it's as simple as asking. Everyone wants to know what the catch is. Everyone wants to know how it can be that a person who lives a life of sin can be given the same treatment as a person who works hard to be good all their life. We think we should be measured by our deeds.

    My experience is that once you accept that forgiveness, it's very hard to do the kind of bad things that used to be so easy. When you realise, really realise, that someone loves you so much that they wipe the slate clean for you every single time you do something mean or stupid or base or just morally wrong.... every single time, just as instantly, no matter how bad what you did was, well, you find yourself changing your tunes a little. You think, if someone can be like that towards me, the least I can do is try to do right by them.

    I know a story about a man who was a devil worshipper. He went about as far from God as I think you can go. He not only did bad things, but he did them while believing that God was watching, and he did them just to show his disrespect and disdain of God. Eventually, he began to realise that it wasn't a nice way to live. The people he mixed with were all about force and pain and he felt that even if he wanted to take a break from it, they wouldn't let him. Coming to terms with the fact that he was no longer in control of his future and his actions brought him slinking back to God, more for protection than anything else. He didn't even say sorry. As an enemy of God, he already knew how it all worked. Just coming back was the only thing he had to do. He was forgiven instantly and that was it. A lifetime of downright evil wiped away in an instant as if it never was. That's what the gift of forgiveness is.

    It's not a matter of you can be real bad and never have to worry about the consequeces. The only one that can judge you is yourself. I see heaven and hell not as incentives for good behaviour, but as something you have control over. I believe that everyone is inherently good enough to know when they do bad things and on some level know that it's wrong. Knowing that you've done something wrong is not a nice feeling, but knowing that you've done something good is a wonderful feeling. It's more self-regulating than people think. Thinking only of yourself and your immediate enjoyment seems easy, but if you buy into this idea that someone loves you so much that they will forgive whatever crap you get up to, then it becomes a lot harder.
    • Bronze
    Wait; what is this "god" you're all talking about? Would someone care to post a picture of it?
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: sillysally

    ORIGINAL: probe1957

    Isn't a Lutheran just a Catholic who doesn't drink?  [:)]


    Believe me Billy, Lutherans drink.....[:D]


     
    So do Baptists contrary to popular belief, I can attest to that.  ;)