Spinoff discussion on religion from the "saving" thread

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Isn't the mere existence of either...dependant upon one's inner belief in it?
 
Just because a Christian may themselves believe Mr X is going to heaven or hell...does their belief make it so for Mr X, if mr X doesn't himself believe in either one? Thinking of it this way...why does their opinion on it matter at all, to Mr X or his soul...if his soul is promised elsewhere or he believes he doesn't even have one?
 
Now THERE'S a conundrum eh?

ORIGINAL: melindar

Alright, I have a question.  So I understand how different faiths may have different "levels" of heaven/hell.  I understand that if you sin and you truely repent for your sin, you may be forgiven.  What happens when someone truely mentally ill does not understand the difference between right & wrong kills someone?  What do the different faiths say about what happens to them?

ORIGINAL: probe1957

ORIGINAL: g33
You simply cannot just "say" you believe and ask for forgiveness as some kind of "get out of hell free" pass. 

It has been awhile since I was "religious" so forgive me my rusty recall, but I disagree.  I think you certainly do get a "get out of hell free" card, so to speak. 

Although the Bible contradicts itself, all you have to do for eternal life is "he who believes and is baptized.." or, "...whosoever believeth in him shall...have everlasting life."  So, all you have to do to get into heaven is to believe and POSSIBLY be baptized.  I believe you can sin all you want.  Please point me to a scripture that indicates otherwise.

ORIGINAL: Roxie865

ORIGINAL: melindar

Since this is so open, I'd love to throw out a question of my own to those of you from Protestant denominations.  From what I gather through constant interaction with my fellow citizens, there is no spirit world in your belief system.  Apparently, when you die, you go straight to a single level heaven, right?  And the bad people go straight to hell?  Well .......... what about Judgement Day?  Do you think that the ones who are in heaven already will get sent to hell after Judgement Day?  Like, they were in heaven for however long, but when their Book of Life is opened and read to them, detailing their bad deeds and such, they may find themselves in hell, perhaps?  "Oh, Sally, I'm so sorry, but you were this close to being righteous and holy.  I guess you're doomed to hell now.  Nice knowing you."  See, that doesn't make sense to me, because it seems unfair.  In our system, the spirit world is more than just a waiting period for Judgement Day.  It serves as a way to educate others about our beliefs, and allow them to reject or accept it. 

And what about non-Christians?  Do you think they immediately go to hell upon death?  There has to be an in-between there, don't you think?  It seems odd that my Muslim friend will go straight to hell when he dies.  That's unfair to him and his fellow Muslims. 

What about the lull between death and Judgement Day?  Care to explain what you believe on this issue?  I'm interested to know.

I'll respond as a non-denominational Christian.

When a person dies, they are fast-forwarded to Judgment Day.  There is no time difference between if you die today and Judgment day doesn't happen until the year 2100...This is the day when Christ returns and the "sheep and goats" are separated out.   So all of us will technically be going through Judgment for the first time (except the Believers who are raptured - if you believe in that - they will have been in heaven with Christ, bodily, before Judgment). 

So, Christians and non-Christians alike, those who died a thousand years ago and those who die today, and those of us still on earth and alive at the time of Judgment, will all be judged together. 

For scriptural references I believe this information can be found in 1 Thessalonians as well as Revelation.

ORIGINAL: Roxie865

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Isn't the mere existence of either...dependant upon one's inner belief in it?
 
Just because a Christian may themselves believe Mr X is going to heaven or hell...does their belief make it so for Mr X, if mr X doesn't himself believe in either one? Thinking of it this way...why does their opinion on it matter at all, to Mr X or his soul...if his soul is promised elsewhere or he believes he doesn't even have one?
 
Now THERE'S a conundrum eh?

Yeah, therein lies the problem, Gina.  LOL!

It's a messy situation, but I can only say what I've heard all my life.  [8D]

ORIGINAL: g33
The point I was making is that you can't just "say" it.  You have to BELIEVE it. 

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Isn't the mere existence of either...dependant upon one's inner belief in it?
 
Just because a Christian may themselves believe Mr X is going to heaven or hell...does their belief make it so for Mr X, if mr X doesn't himself believe in either one? Thinking of it this way...why does their opinion on it matter at all, to Mr X or his soul...if his soul is promised elsewhere or he believes he doesn't even have one?
 
Now THERE'S a conundrum eh?

They are "innocents" and have neither had the opportunity or ability to accept or reject Christ as their Lord and Savior.

ORIGINAL: probe1957

ORIGINAL: g33
The point I was making is that you can't just "say" it.  You have to BELIEVE it. 

I understand, but what I am saying is I think you can keep raping and pillaging and as long as you "believe" you will get into heaven.

ORIGINAL: chelsea_b

They are "innocents" and have neither had the opportunity or ability to accept or reject Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Maybe this is true for SOME Christians, but don't those who baptize babies believe they'll go to hell if they die before being baptized? Isn't that why they're baptized so early?

That's a catholic thing.

So regardless of whether or not Mr. X believes in hell or not, or whether or not Mr. X believes he has a soul or not, God says that he does.