Are We TOO Puritanical??

    • Gold Top Dog
    Unfortunately I'm not a mom (probably been pregnant 8-10 times but I can't carry even for 2 months *sigh*) but no that doesn't offend me at all.  Makes me a bit jealous and sad that it'll never be me, but not offended.
     
    But after reading all the responses and as a non-mom (other than to my 3 bestest fur-buddies) I have a couple of observations/thots:
     
    1.  NOT ONE responded negatively -- 'zat because we're all dog people and tend to be a tad more earthy and less freaked generally by discussions of such stuff as pee, poop, anal glands, and bile? (ever see how many people rush to the defense of the dog when someone equates 'humping' as a sexual thing?? It always makes me laugh how quick we are to set folks straight that it's a puppy/sibling/dominance/I'mTopDog thing).  Or
     
    2.  Did no one respond negatively because they knew it wouldn't be well received?
     
    3.  I think Bunni hit a huge nail on the head -- if a woman is insecure in her own feelings about her adequacy as "female" and thinks her own husband is going to be 'turned on' or find such a picture pornographic, then it would be easy to try to justify offense.  There are, FOR SURE, perverts out there who are actually majorly turned on by pregnant, nursing women (there are fetishists out there who get turned on by all sorts of weirdo stuff including toes and poop), and I'm sure there are women threatened by it.
     
    4.  I honestly think, in a nutshell, it has less to do with (altho solidly blamed on) puritanism and hyper-morality, than it has to do with a bizarre kind of jealousy/envy.  We live in a society so over-conscious of always being in control, how we 'look', how we must remain *young* (and never saggy, baggy or imperfect), that seeing such a natural thing is scarey.  A co-worker is pregnant right now, and she is horrified beyond belief by the idea of breast-feeding -- because it ultimately is messy and inconvenient.  She might 'leak' or have to feed at an inconvenient time.  A bottle seems more 'sterile' and ... controlled. 
     
    If I open a bottle of water it is 'clean' -- heaven forbid I might have to drink out of a glass merely 'cleaned' or get water from a sink that might have "contaminates" in it.  Unfortunataely all of us, to a degree, have bought the commericial propaganda that only something commerically prepared and sterilized is fit for consumption and anything else is horrifying.  But the same people never think about how many people may have handled the top of that bottle before they turn the top off it.
     
    Unfortunately I think it has more to do with a modern definition of 'dirty' being 'contaminated' ... and then you roll that all up with the idea of something being "morally wrong" and you have a real irrational fear. 
     
    Kinda sad, huh?
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Callie, I found the whole idea of bottles messy and inconvenient. [:D] When I had my kids there was no such thing as disposable bottles or pre-made formula.  You had to sterilize the bottles and make the formula, then make sure you got it into the refrigerator.  I had friends that were always doing this at midnight. Every place they went, they had to remember to pack bottles and then look for someplace to keep them cool - and God forbid they should be delayed or stuck in traffic for hours. For me, nursing = no mess and great convenience.

    Joyce
    • Gold Top Dog
    Callie, I think you make a good point about the perceived messiness or dirtiness of the human body (although I still think it's weird for mothers of small children to not be used to messes [:D]). I worked at a maternity store for a while and when the store was dead I would read the books we were selling. I read Jenny McCarthy's book about pregnancy, the name of which escapes me right now, but it was all about telling it like it really is - the discomfort, the embarrassing stuff, all the stuff that no one really talks about because it's "dirty" or "gross" when really it's all just normal human body stuff.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ah, Joyce, a girl after my own heart!
     
    How 'bout this?  For as little and sweet looking as they are, babies make an INCREDIBLE amount of noise when they want to be fed, and man, getting up at 2AM is bad enough without listening to THAT while you stumble around fixing and heating a bottle!  My first son was so good natured if you changed his diaper he'd wait a good amount of time to eat, but the second?  The eyes and mouth opened at the same time and he didn't stop screaming until he got fed.  He was NOT an easy baby in any sense, and I'll tell ya, I *might* have run away from home if I'd had to listen to him screaming in the middle of the nite while I fixed a bottle! [:o]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Joyce -- there can't be anything MORE convenient and less 'messy' than your own portable spigots *smile*.  BUT a good deal of what I mean has to do with the enormous inpact advertising has had on our lives.
     
    IS bottled water 'cleaner'?  By the time 10 people have handled it? No way.  BUT we're *told* it's cleaner, and everyone is germaphobic these days because 95 commercials a minute tell us we have to be.
     
    It's like sitting down with your favorite dog magazine and that article on supplements pops out at you, and gosh -- right there on THAT page there's an advertisement for ... supplements?? Wow!  Didn't know they made those!  Chance?  no way.  Marketing?  You bet. 
     
    We've been "marketed" right into believing good is bad and normal is dirty.  *sigh*  I'll shut up now.
    • Gold Top Dog
    A little OT here - I had Max over at the dog park this a.m. and there's a "dog/people" water fountain there.  There's a drinking tap on the tall one for people, one a little lower (I assume for kids) and the one at the bottom is for dogs and it's kept full with a foot pedal.  However, a lot of bigger dogs like to drink out of the middle height people fountain.  I think they just like the arc of the water. [:D] A friend and I were laughing about it and we decided that the middle fountain would be for tall dogs and short people to share.

    Joyce
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, here's my thoughts, non-mom, not really into kids at all. . .

    The picture doesn't offend me at all.  However, when I see or hear about people still breast feeding and the kid is old enough to have teeth or ask to be fed,  I think that's going too far.  To me, something is going on mentally with the mom. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wasnt offended but i was a little jealous that after baby Number 5 breast and baby were much lower and can i have my breast airbrushed to remove the stretch marks??
    • Gold Top Dog
    What I find incredibly amazing is how many people are offended by a breast but think nothing of movies/tv shows filled with violence, blood, gore, etc.
    • Gold Top Dog
    As a mother who breastfed 3 babies, and as a grandmother of 4 breastfed babies, I think it a beautiful picture!
    The bonding that takes place during breastfeeding is second to none!
    Willowchow, I would have to respectfully disagree with you about what age is appropriate to discontinue breastfeeding.  I believe it is a cultural thing, not a mental issue, and I believe the correct time to quit breastfeeding is when the mother and child are both ready to quit.  Just MHO.  :-)
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: willowchow

    Well, here's my thoughts, non-mom, not really into kids at all. . .

    The picture doesn't offend me at all.  However, when I see or hear about people still breast feeding and the kid is old enough to have teeth or ask to be fed,  I think that's going too far.  To me, something is going on mentally with the mom. 

     
    Personally, I think if the kid can say "breast" it's time to detach it.....
    • Gold Top Dog
    The picture doesn't offend me at all. However, when I see or hear about people still breast feeding and the kid is old enough to have teeth or ask to be fed, I think that's going too far. To me, something is going on mentally with the mom.


    The World Health Organization reccomends breast feeding until at least two years, and conventional wisdom suggests at least a year.

    That said, my four month old "neice" (who isn't technically related to me...) is cutting teeth.
    • Gold Top Dog
    DS #1 stopped nursing around 11 months when I got pregnant with DS #2...the doctor said that with pregnancy the taste of breastmilk can change......DS #2 stopped around 8 or 9 months because he didn't like holding still long enough to nurse and preferred a bottle that he could take WITH him.......I doubt that I would have gone longer than a year with either anyway since I HAD to work when they were little and it was pretty tough.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I believe it is a cultural thing, not a mental issue, and I believe the correct time to quit breastfeeding is when the mother and child are both ready to quit.  Just MHO.  :-)

     
    This is exactly what I mean when I say it's a mental issue with the mom.  Why are you saying when the child AND mother are "ready".  What exactly does the mom need to be ready for??  Not breastfeeding??  It's a mental issue with the mom. 
     
    I'm sorry but something is just not right with breastfeeding a kid who is able to walk and talk. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't expect anyone who hasn't breastfed a child to understand what a special and bonding thing it can be.  I felt a little sadness when mine quit nursing, not because I particularly ENJOYED feeling like a dairy cow, but because it meant that they needed me less, if that makes sense...that they were growing up soooooo soon.  And as ready as we THINK we are for our kids to grow it's always a little bittersweet when they take those first few steps away from us.