Curious as to your reaction to this article

    • Gold Top Dog
    Robin I dont think you should be sorry for anything!  Lots of us here love a debate.  I truly and sincerely like everyone here... I also really like debating.  I never take offense and hope others dont take offense to what I say.  As much as the lot of us communicate its only natural to realize our differences and at times even get annoyed with each other...  doesnt mean we dont like each other or at least for me it doesnt mean that, as I cant speak for everyone.
     
    I have always wondered if I offended Billy in the president thread but reading what he wrote to Glenda here sort of lets me know I didnt... that he feels the same about debating as I do. 
     
    Anyway... its a interesting topic and you shouldnt be sorry for posting it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well I've been kicking around this planet long enough to have been involved in the feminist movement as well. I burned my bra in the 60's and 45 years later I still only own one - for special occassions! I think, like a lot of well intentioned movements, womens lib started out with all the right goals. Somewhere along the way the movement was high jacked by radicals and extremists. The traditional female role of nurturer and care giver became something to be ashamed of - something to be looked down on. We had to be hard and demanding. We had to fight dirty - just like our male counter parts. As women we were expected to rise up against our oppressors. Men became our enemies. There were a lot of very loud and angry women out there in the 60's & 70's and to be honest I think they did more harm than good. They were not fighting for equality. They wanted women to be seen and treated exactly the same as men. Well HELLO! We are not the same. We look different, think different and have we different roles to play and contributions to make.
    I'm proud to be a woman!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Glenda,
    Miranadobe sums it up perfectly. WOMEN...not girls. I realize you may be stung by my pointing discussions on male bottoms, kinda parallels a man's ogling of a Hooters waitress...but I think that was a bit of a reach, all the same.
     
    Thanks Miranadobe for pointing out what I thought was pretty obvious.
     
    The other thread was my concern over a 40something man who ogled in a very obvious way...a neighbor girl who is as I know now, is 12 years old. I informed the girls family, for which they were grateful, and commented here at I-dog that her clothing wasn't something my daughter would wear at that age because of situations like the above. Hope that clears it up a little. Thanks again [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well,i am glad this is the kind of place where you can debate a subject without people getting offended over  differing points of views.

     I also agree that with the comming of Political Correctness,and the extremists hijacking noble causes,somehow a great many people have gone astray of good solid core moral values...

     i see no reason not to express your POV,when not imposing your POV on me,and that is a 2 way street.

     I hope my daughters or son dont ever think they need to have a job that makes them feel degrated,and hope my wife and myself have parented them where they will make good moral descicions.

     We all must take responsibility in the descisions we make,and if we have raised our sons and daughters the way we believe we should,then chances are they will turn out either not working at hooters,or working there and thinking its ok...

     i guess i just believe so much of this comes back to how you were raised,and how you are raising your kids if you have them.

     
    • Gold Top Dog
    white

     
    That will bite you in the butt.
     
    I've been to Hooters a few times, always because someone else is eating there. You can get as good a burger elsewhere, much cheaper but people don't go there because of the burgers. They go there to look at pretty women.
     
    My mother, without a high school diploma, wore pant suits because she preferred it in the business environment and she learned and studied on her own and learned COBOL, FORTRAN, Assember, and RPG II, which she used on IBM 360 Mainframe computers. She turned down a lucrative job offer at E-Systems because they had a draconian dress code that would have required her to wear a dress or skirt.
     
    She didn't march for women's rights but you couldn't stop her from doing what she had her mind set on. And she proved herself capable on sheer brain power. In later years, she was very religious. She would not have approved of Hooters or involving them in the spay/neuter thing. She would have preferred that guys learn to spay and neuter, not because of a pretty woman in a bikini, but because it is the right thing to do. And if that wasn't good enough for a guy, she would also point out that doing the right thing is better than a 2 X 4 up side the head.
     
    She backed down from no one and forged her own path where there was none.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Gina, no, your and Billys comments about the butt oggling was fair enough.  But to say that part of the fight was about women being proud of their bodies and not having to cover them up and then say but a 12 year old girl SHOULD be covered up because of dirty old men kind of makes my point.
     
    I agree.....when I was trapped on the third floor of a burning building and the firefighter who came up the ladder was a MAN...a big burly man, I was relieved.  I've terrified of heights and had that firefighter been a woman my size, she would have had to knocked me out to get me outta that building.  Things have gone to far in some areas.
     
    As women, for the most part, we have a totally different bone and muscle structure.  There are some jobs that we, for the most part, are not physically capable of doing.  And we, collective we, need to stop forcing our way into situations that endanger the safety of others so we can be "equal".
     
    When I was coming up, women were supposed to be teachers, nurses or secretarys, but only until they married and had children.  At 15 I started writing SPORTS for the local paper as a stringer.  Not surprisingly, my very traditional mother had a harder time seeing my byline than did my very traditional father.  Dad, by that time, had accepted that I was marching to my own drummer. I still embarass my mother.
     
    When I first entered the advertising world, it was a MANS world and it was a major uphill battle.  I was not hired for one job because I would have had to been a "brass balled lady bitch" to succeed in that market.  The competition hired me and I was a star because I wasn't.  Because I used the female stuff...the empathy, understanding, listening skills, etc, but NOT my physical attributes, to HELP the client.  And, in those days it was a whole lot harder to be taken seriously because I was pretty...because I didn't look like someone who needed to work when I could have a man taking care of me.
     
    When I had my tubes tied in 1980, I DID have to have my jerky husbands consent for the surgery.  When a hormonal imbalance caused me to need a hysterectomy in 81 I had to have a SHRINK say that I was emotionally stable to make the decision to have it done.
     
    As a young working mother I faced all the blasts of folks who thought a mother belonged at home with her children.  So I did it ALL.  I cooked, cleaned, canned, baked, did crafts, sewed, did ;PTA, sports, scouts, you name it, I did it, while holding down a full time job that can be pretty stressful.  Because I had to prove that I was no less a good mother than the one who stayed home with her children.  And I know that stay at home moms faced the same thing.  Shortly after my second son was born I was at a DC party and at the time was home with my children.  When asked what I did, I suddenly became a person not worth talking to because I was home with my children.  So I got to see both ugly sides.
     
    For me the fight was NEVER about being equal to a man....I LIKED my pedastil just fine, thank you very much.....but it was about being equally considered for a job that I was fully qualified to do, being equally compensated for doing that job and breaking ground for future generations of women so that they didn't believe that their ONLY choice to earn money was by working at Hooters.
     
    And yeah, here I go really sticking my foot in it....it's gone too far.  We are and should be mothers first.  WE need to nurture the family, guide the children and be the moral compass of the household.  And if WE can't do that while pursuing our career goals than we either shouldn't HAVE children or we should ramp back our career efforts during their formative years.  Because children should not be raising themselves and that's whats happening these days.  Because teachers shouldn't have to work in war zones of unruly children who don't know what the heck discipline is and who have parents who raise the roof if Johnny or Susie has to sit in detention for 15 minutes for punching another child in the face.  Because kids should NOT think that the world owes them a danged thing...and too many these days do.
     
    Both of MY sons are in their mid-late 20's.  Both open the door for women, both give up their seats for women, both are polite and respectful of ALL people.  But I darned near killed myself proving I could do it all.  I don't want to see todays women do what I had to do, but gosh darn it, I would like to see them PARENT the children that they create.
     
    So excuse me for being disappointed in the direction things have gone. Excuse me for being sad that young women STILL think they need to use their bodies to get what they want because they can make MORE money more quickly if they strip down.  But am I judging them?  No.  I'm just saddened by them.  I'm sad that a good fight went so wrong.
     
    And THAT is just my old fart, judgemental (not) opinion.  I own it and I'm entitled to it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: glenmar

     I'm sad that a good fight went so wrong.


     
    Now was that so bad?  [:)]
     
    Believe it or not, I agree with much of what you have said throughout this thread.
     
    Where I believe the "fight went so wrong" is SOME women and SOME people in a position of power believed that women were somehow entitled to equality of OUTCOME and not just equality of OPPORTUNITY. 
     
    Using my previous firefighter example again, if a woman could carry that 150 pound sandbag down the stairs, just as the male applicants were required to do, she could be a firefighter.  She had equal OPPORTUNITY with the male applicants.  The problem was, almost no women could do it, so they dropped the requirement.  The powers that be wanted a certain number of women on the department.  They wanted to ensure the OUTCOME, not just the opportunity.  Having equal opportunity did not produce the desired results.  It is here that the battle went wrong.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: loveukaykay


    I have always wondered if I offended Billy in the president thread


     
    Hell no, you didn't offend me.  You are entitled to be wrong and you can do that without causing me any offense whatsoever.  [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Same to you Billy... you are too entitled to be wrong.[8D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    In the melodious words of my dearly departed Grandfather--"Opinions are like a**h*les.  Everyone has one, and we all think that everyone else's stinks."
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: glenmar

    As women, for the most part, we have a totally different bone and muscle structure.  There are some jobs that we, for the most part, are not physically capable of doing.  And we, collective we, need to stop forcing our way into situations that endanger the safety of others so we can be "equal".




    As a young working mother I faced all the blasts of folks who thought a mother belonged at home with her children.  So I did it ALL.  I cooked, cleaned, canned, baked, did crafts, sewed, did ;PTA, sports, scouts, you name it, I did it, while holding down a full time job that can be pretty stressful.  Because I had to prove that I was no less a good mother than the one who stayed home with her children.  And I know that stay at home moms faced the same thing.  Shortly after my second son was born I was at a DC party and at the time was home with my children.  When asked what I did, I suddenly became a person not worth talking to because I was home with my children.  So I got to see both ugly sides.

    For me the fight was NEVER about being equal to a man....I LIKED my pedastil just fine, thank you very much.....but it was about being equally considered for a job that I was fully qualified to do, being equally compensated for doing that job and breaking ground for future generations of women so that they didn't believe that their ONLY choice to earn money was by working at Hooters.

    And yeah, here I go really sticking my foot in it....it's gone too far.  We are and should be mothers first.  WE need to nurture the family, guide the children and be the moral compass of the household.  And if WE can't do that while pursuing our career goals than we either shouldn't HAVE children or we should ramp back our career efforts during their formative years.  Because children should not be raising themselves and that's whats happening these days.  Because teachers shouldn't have to work in war zones of unruly children who don't know what the heck discipline is and who have parents who raise the roof if Johnny or Susie has to sit in detention for 15 minutes for punching another child in the face.  Because kids should NOT think that the world owes them a danged thing...and too many these days do.

     I don't want to see todays women do what I had to do, but gosh darn it, I would like to see them PARENT the children that they create.


     
    Couldn't been better put Glenda.  I totally agree with you if your a mom whether at home or working you need to be a mom! 
     
    If you can't raise your kids and take them to activities and hold a job down then don't have them.  Its unfair to the children.  IMHO if a woman can do the job as well as a man then she should have that job, but if she cannot then she isn't entitled to have it just because of her sex.  If a woman wants to be a firefighter and can pass all the tests that then men have to then she should be able to have that job.  If a woman cannot lift the heavy weight and such they shouldn't make change the rules so she can do the job.
    Regardless of sex or race you should qualify for the job because you fit the criteria and can do it.[:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes I do have a problem with this. It's completley inappropriate. And as for it being for a good cause....does the end justify the means??? I don't think so.
    • Gold Top Dog
    IMHO, if it is saving animals lives, how can it NOT be worth it? 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Have to say I burned a few bras in the 60's too.  But if I had ever dreamed what the cost of a bra would be 40 years later, I think I would have just gently boiled them. [:)]

    Joyce
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: fuzzy_dogs_mom

    Have to say I burned a few bras in the 60's too.  But if I had ever dreamed what the cost of a bra would be 40 years later, I think I would have just gently boiled them. [:)]

    Joyce

     

     
    ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! [:D]