Breeder...mill...byb?

I am being sarcastic of course, though that is what I took it to mean.

calliecritturs

The thing that screamed at me (aside from what everyone else said) - when they place at 8 weeks (which is danged young)

Most breeders place puppies in their new homes at around 8 weeks; it's not that young or abnormal.
I wouldn't want to get a dog from a breeder that was say, 5+ months old already- I want to bring up the pup the way I want to and I want it to be socialized with other dogs/cats/kids/adults/whatever, not just immediate family (mom + siblings). But, if I did want an older pup some breeders hold onto puppies longer (to see if they can show or work, etc) or I'd go to a shelter.

In regards the OP: No, I wouldn't get a puppy from these people. Sounds awfully like a BYB. They might be well intentioned, but that does nothing for me when it comes down to my next dog.

I wouldn't take a puppy under 10 weeks, ever again. Puppies learn a LOT from Mom and littermates after they're finished nursing. Everybody I know who breeds *well* places pups at 9-14 weeks, depending on the breed and the individual.

jennie_c_d

I wouldn't take a puppy under 10 weeks, ever again. Puppies learn a LOT from Mom and littermates after they're finished nursing. Everybody I know who breeds *well* places pups at 9-14 weeks, depending on the breed and the individual.

Well, that's you. Doesn't make you right or wrong. I personally know several GOOD breeders that place at 8 weeks. My first Lab came from a very reputable breeder and was placed with us at 8 weeks. We never had a single behavioral issue with her; she was very much everything a Lab should be. Over 20 years later, we're still good friends with her breeder and we don't even own a dog from her anymore. Like, I said, I prefer my next puppy to be around 8 weeks.

I don't think there's a right or wrong but I prefer 7-8 weeks.  GSDs can have large litters though, it's not like at 7 or 8 weeks they have been deprived.  At 8 weeks, Nikon's brother bit him, ripped his ear and he had a scar for a long time.  It was a litter of 10 and they learned what there was to learn by 7.5 weeks.  At 8 weeks they could not be together unsupervised because there were just too many, too rambunctious, and there were some size differences.  Sometimes the moms are just done with the puppies as soon as they wean.  There's also a ton of socialization and training that *I* need to accomplish before 12 weeks of age and I start showing my pups at 12 weeks.  I don't have a problem with a breeder hanging on to dogs until 12 weeks but I'd never buy one later than 9 or 10 weeks with 8 being preferred.  I don't see how even the best breeder with the best intentions can properly do all the socializing, training, crate training, and house breaking that is difficult enough for me to manage with one puppy between 8-12 weeks of age.  When I had Ana I got her at 9 weeks and it was because the breeder kept two puppies back, not even the entire litter but just two, and saw the value in learning these lessons separately with specialized care and training.  When I returned Ana she was house broke, crate trained, slept through the night, knew basic commands, and had been socialized up the wazoo with people, places, dogs, textures, smells, you name it.

You always have to weight the pros and cons, or the health risks of either scenario.  It probably depends on breed but early socialization is absolutely crucial for GSDs, something that can and should be achieved along with some common sense to keep the dog safe from disease and bad experiences.

Liesje

There's also a ton of socialization and training that *I* need to accomplish before 12 weeks of age

I don't see how even the best breeder with the best intentions can properly do all the socializing, training, crate training, and house breaking that is difficult enough for me to manage with one puppy between 8-12 weeks of age. 

That's exactly what I was trying to say.

My next puppy will be another Lab. They generally have large litters also. I don't see how a breeder could do everything I want done before a certain again with a large litter of energetic, playful pups.

Definitely.  My puppy born this week I hope to get at 7 weeks as long as the litter is a decent size, on the early side this time but the dogs are kenneled so I need to get that pup indoors and potty trained.  The breeder does not breed to make money, he keeps many of the dogs he breeds and they are superb quality and pedigree but his dogs are kenneled so that's how the dogs are raised.  The longer that pup stays, the more work I have later on.

Breeder's have every right to decide when to let pups go.  If one does not trust me or agree with how I train and socialize, I respect their decision not to sell me a puppy.

Liesje

The longer that pup stays, the more work I have later on.

Agree.

My next Lab we'll be training to compete in hunting and field tests. There are certain things the pup needs to get used to; birds, scents, loud noises, different terrain, water, etc, and I want to get going on working on those properly, not wait until the pup is almost past the prime age of socialization to begin. That also goes for crate training and housebreaking.

My Dad got both his ESS's at 7-8 weeks. Talk about good hunting dogs, and amazing companions. Like I stated above, my first Lab was 8 weeks when we got her. Never had a single behavioral issue, another amazing dog.

Maybe it's different because we're looking at working dogs?? I would expect a working dog to be more comfortable and able to deal with certain things over a pet dog.

That said, IF the litter is individually socialized a great deal, then maybe I would consider an older pup, but like Labs and GSD's, Huskies have huge litters. Crusher's litter was 13 pups and Onyx came from one of 15. Crusher was part of Nikki's first litter too. 13 pups on the first litter...ya, who has time to socialize that many pups individually? I mean, even if this had been a good breeder.

 Goose's breeder won't place before 8 weeks. He prefers to keep them longer, but did let us take her home at 8 weeks as we have other dogs and he already has a relationship with us (and since we were going to be in town that week we requested being able to take her home then). HIs pups are socialized to a variety of things starting early, though, and they're all pretty unflappable puppies.

Aesop was with his litter until 13 weeks (same breeder)and I can say that his behavior was no different than Goose's.  I'd almost say that she seems to have better dog skills, but that's likely an individual thing.  (also ignoring that he's currently being a goob to her)

 So, I'd take it on a case by case basis on the age thing  if I were choosing a breeder. In my case, I was comfortable with it this time. 

 Still doesn't make me think this is a good breeder though

I think a lot of it is temperament.  I've mentioned this in other threads but a friend of mine recently bought a dog over a year old and the dog had lived in a kennel, not been mistreated at all, but not really received any socialization or training, and the dog is unflappable.  She is very confident and secure around people and other dogs.  The first time she came out to Schutzhund club (just a week after being with her new owner) she acted like she owned the place and was showing better than many of the 1+ year old dogs we've had at club since 8 weeks.  Contrast that with my Kenya who was not only socialized with her own litter and mother but a surrogate mother and second litter (her dam stopped producing milk and was spayed as soon as this became obvious).  She has always lived with several other dogs and been in many situations with people and dogs, and yet she lacks confidence and nerve, and when something upsets her she does not instantly recover.

In my case, I would worry that my dog might become too accustomed to other dogs.  In my breed it is a fault for the dog to be so social that it openly accepts the company of strange dogs or any social activities that do not first defer to it's owner or pack.  So when I get a new dog, I want that dog to learn how to live with *me* and *my dogs*, that doesn't necessarily mean my dog needs to be super socialized among other dogs because that is not what I want.  Other dogs are neutral, they are just there, and that includes mom and siblings.  I already have a dog that is so social, he prefers being with other dogs over pretty much anything else.  For a working dog that is not what we want or want to encourage.  First, the puppy needs to have a relationship with me, second a relationship with my other dogs.  So, for me it's like Stephanie is saying.  The dog's ability to work and do their job takes precedence over early socialization that might make the dog a better candidate for doggy day care or visiting the dog park.

Anyway, that went rather off topic. Nope, releasing the pups at 8 weeks wouldn't make me buy from this breeder either. Neither would the early vaccinations, the lack of health testing, the lack of showing or performance of any type, breeding for faults in the breed, breeding your own animals over and over again to no betterment of the breed, the large banners declaring the types of payments they accept or the vast assortment of puppies available at this time. Hmmmm...did I miss anything?

huskymom

Well, he's not making puppies anymore silly! What other job could a purebred Boston have?!

I am being sarcastic of course, though that is what I took it to mean.

Yeah, I figured that out later on.  LOL  But when I see retired, I usually think of some kind of showing (breed, obedience, etc) or work (even if it's "only" therapy work) first.

  For me it depends on a lot of things. For an experienced owner, I have no issues with puppies going home as young as 7 weeks. Some performance/obedience people strongly feel feel 7 weeks is ideal. For pet owners, I think a bit older is often easier for them and will encourage them to wait until 9+ weeks. I also can/do start socializing and housetraining puppies that aren't placed right away because I have a very dog friendly job.

 Everyone has their own ideas and reasons for what is the "ideal age" to send puppies home. It is up to individuals to decide what is right for them and their puppies.