Intact dogs and same sex aggression

BlackLabbie

I just wanted to pop in and let you know about my fathers springer spaniels. He never owned a neutered dog (he owned GSD's, Labs, and Springers). He hunted with all his springers. He had 2 males at one time (both SS's), and he hunted with a friend that owned 2 males (a springer and a lab). There was never any fights. My dad said in his case it was about training, socializing, and the dogs were driven to work. The dogs rarely cared about each other...except for who was getting called to retrieve the bird. And none of my fathers males were ever bred.

Before Apollo was neutered I noticed he honestly had better dog-dog manners. *shrugs* He was 5+ years when I got him, intact. He was around many dogs without any issue. Then I got him neutered and he became leash reactive (barking/whining, hackles up, no lunging, no showing teeth) and really pushy when playing- almost like he had to "prove" something. We have that under control now, but I always will wonder if it had something to do with him being neutered.

BlackLabbie

Before Apollo was neutered I noticed he honestly had better dog-dog manners. *shrugs* He was 5+ years when I got him, intact. He was around many dogs without any issue. Then I got him neutered and he became leash reactive (barking/whining, hackles up, no lunging, no showing teeth) and really pushy when playing- almost like he had to "prove" something. We have that under control now, but I always will wonder if it had something to do with him being neutered.

 I have seen this happen in several dogs I have known. Prior to neutering, they were appropriate or even social with dogs while out and about. Once they were neutered, both when they were middle aged they became rather intolerant of strange dogs and lost interest in being social with them.

The 3 boys got along fine almost all of the time when no females were in heat. When the girls were in heat I had to keep the boys separated from each other. None of my males ever passed up a chance to mate with a female. When I was breeding I would leave the male and female I was breeding alone together. They would do it usually twice a day and the rest of the time they were cuddled up together. (Wearing onesies cause I didn't want them doing it without supervision.) Wherever the female went the male followed like a jealous suitor.

Panama Red was 3 years old (and intact) before he ever lifted a leg to mark in my house. When he was 3 (and had already been bred) a male dog visited and marked a spot. Panama started doing it that day and although he doesn't do it as much as some, he has done it ever since. I got him neutered when he was 10 since the girls I had left were all his daughters and granddaughters. It changed nothing about him except that he no longer loses his mind when he can't be with a girl who is in heat. Before he was neutered he would jump up and down at the baby gate (which he could easily have jumped over but was trained not to). No amount of training would get him to be quiet and stop jumping and doing the "silent scream" when a girl was in heat on the other side. (If he was being bred he would cuddle up with the female for the week or two and he'd be fine.)

Now I have Panama (neutered), Java intact, 2 intact girls and one spayed girl. I am not breeding so I would have Java neutered but I'm a little concerned about putting him under since he's so little (4 1/2 lbs.) Right now my 2 girls are in heat and Java has been chasing them around the house and humping them if he's in a different room from Panama. (He's wearing a onesie/condom) Pamama will growl and shoe Java away from the girls if he sees Java trying to mount them but no longer tries to mount them himself except rarely and isn't excited enough over it to fight with Java.

We have not had many serious fighting issues in my house except with Skidget who I finally (and very sadly) had to rehome.

Any fight has been between same sex dogs. Any fight that Panama isn't in, he'll stop. (He's only had a couple of fights, those with the other boys and never drawing blood.) The girls fight more often than the boys and the girls don't let it drop. If the boys fight I can separate them for a little while and they forget all about it. With the girls it can take days to forget about it.

Just an interesting aside: I had 11 dogs for a long time in a pretty peaceful household where everyone was a member of the household and some of the dogs slept in crates some nights, mainly when some girls were in heat. At the highest point we had 15 dogs and then started having problems. It was like we had reached critical mass at 15. I think that's when Skidget got neurotic and we started having some fights. Now we have 5 (plus Deva the Eskie mix & 2 cats) and really couldn't have a more calm household.

Finally, I was very surprised when I found out that not only the boys use "their own devices". The girls do too.

 IDK, I have not lived with many intact dogs (at least not for periods of years), but I can say that horses can DEFINITELY be interested in mares in heat after gelded.  My formed standardbred gelding was most likely castrated as a yearling (he was raced as a 2 year old gelding and his birthday in in May) and he would not just show interest but mount and actually go so far as "sealing the deal" (as best he could, obviously) if allowed.

I had Jack altered at a year old.  If I had to do it over I would have waited until two but he was a humping fool (other dogs, not anything else) and I didn't know how to properly deal with it.  Actually, the neutering did almost take care of the humping issue.  He and Sally will humnp each other and every so often he'll try to hump a smaller dog at the park, but I tell him "off" and he's done with it.

BlackLabbie

I just wanted to pop in and let you know about my fathers springer spaniels. He never owned a neutered dog (he owned GSD's, Labs, and Springers). He hunted with all his springers. He had 2 males at one time (both SS's), and he hunted with a friend that owned 2 males (a springer and a lab). There was never any fights. My dad said in his case it was about training, socializing, and the dogs were driven to work. The dogs rarely cared about each other...except for who was getting called to retrieve the bird. And none of my fathers males were ever bred.

Before Apollo was neutered I noticed he honestly had better dog-dog manners. *shrugs* He was 5+ years when I got him, intact. He was around many dogs without any issue. Then I got him neutered and he became leash reactive (barking/whining, hackles up, no lunging, no showing teeth) and really pushy when playing- almost like he had to "prove" something. We have that under control now, but I always will wonder if it had something to do with him being neutered.

Interesting - my male dog was DA pre-neuter, and got worse post-neuter. Given all the hard work I'd done with him (before and after the op) I am fairly sure the snip had something to do with it.

 Lillie, Joker, and Fynn were all intact when I had them. The boys never fought not even when Lillie came in heat. Joker was the only one stressed over Lillie being in heat. Fynn acted like he didnt know.

Now Fynn is in a show home with another male. I emailed them and asked how he did at one of his shows and they said he had gotten into a fight with their other male when their female was in heat. 

Fynn was older than Joker but I had Joker before I got Fynn. I do know that Fynn's breeder never let any of the males run together even though they were brothers because she didnt know when a fight would break out. The only female in the house was their mother and a female puppy cousin. Even the neutered male she has is only allowed loose with the mom because he will even fight.