Tail cutting and Ear Cutting

I'm not trying to be pesty (b/c I don't care if people dock or crop their dogs) but how does the crop help with ear infections?  It seems to be a common ailment of GSDs but they have standing ears, that's why I ask.

Our neighbors have a gorgeous pit bull and had him cropped.  I must say it was a really nice job and he looks fabulous.  The kids always ask if my shepherds were cropped or why I didn't get Coke cropped, lol.

willowchow

Do you any type of scars or anything on ears that have been done? 

Not one, willowchow.  The fur grows over the area in time and it looks totally natural -- most people who don't know the specifics of breeds assume that Danes come naturally with erect ears.  If cropped properly, they look as natural as a breed that 'comes that way'.   The only time that scarring or any irregularities may occur is if the post-procedure taping was not done properly -- but even that is probably a stretch. 

DougB

 I don't know who drives the concept of "politically correct", but they never seem to ask for my opinion. Sometimes I worry about the PC police showing up and telling me I do everything wrong, and my probably anti PC reply.  It seems that the PC groups have become very adept at forcing the majority to follow the will of minority groups.
 

  I feel the same way!

 I have had dews removed on neonatal puppies. I have since decided that it is probably better to leave the front dews intact but will continue to have the rear ones removed, if I have puppies born with them. My breed is left all natural otherwise - long tails, natural pricked ears.

Liesje

I'm not trying to be pesty (b/c I don't care if people dock or crop their dogs) but how does the crop help with ear infections?  It seems to be a common ailment of GSDs but they have standing ears, that's why I ask.

 That is a good question. GSD owners often battle ear infections and GSDs have medium to very large, pricked ears. I suspect ear infections have more to do with the ear canal than the ear flap, although I can see where very heavy eared dogs may be more prone to having trouble. I also have known lots of natural eared dogs of traditionally cropped breeds and they never seemed any more or less at risk for infections than the average dog. I knew a Mini Schnauzer breeder who insisted that undocked Schauzers will more often than not end up with gangrene, requiring an emergency dock (if the dog lives) and almost all uncropped Schaunzers will suffer through constant ear infections throughout their lives.

Liesje

I'm not trying to be pesty (b/c I don't care if people dock or crop their dogs) but how does the crop help with ear infections?  It seems to be a common ailment of GSDs but they have standing ears, that's why I ask.

It is supposed to keep the ear canals open and free and clear for good air circulation so moisture doesn't get in and stay in because of the ear flaps.

Schnauzers are generally cropped for aesthetics reasons. I have never seen a mini Schnauzer yet who developed an ear infection. The only problem I've ever seen with ears was one dog who got ear mites by licking the ears of another dog, but that is not related to the cropping reasoning. I have, however, seen many ear infections in other non-cropped breeds I've grown up with. That's why the argument isn't (in general) a strong one IMO, as all the dogs who have experienced ear infections that I have seen are breeds that never have been cropped in history.

I would be just as concerned (I'm not that concerned, but the same argument can be made) with the risks of foreign bodies having increased chances of entering the ear canal and causing problems. Fox tails, fungal spores, dust and dirt, small insects, etc, have much easier access to enter the ear canals if the ears are erect and/or open rather than with a drop ear. So arguments can be made both ways as to "ear health".

I'm glad Tootsies docked. That tail is sad looking, IMO.

Kim_MacMillan

Schnauzers are generally cropped for aesthetics reasons. I have never seen a mini Schnauzer yet who developed an ear infection.

I have seen DOZENS. Then again, I dig around in strangers' dogs' ears, every day, for a living. 

I'm sure it happens, but then again I'm sure it happens in all breeds with some frequency. I've been around many, many Mini's, in terms of living day-in day-out, for the last 10 years (and had one prior since I was eight years old, but I don't generally include that one since it was only one dog) and never had one with an ear infection that I can remember. The only dog I can remember as I said had gotten ear mites from another dog.  

In all honesty, my male Zipper, who has what I would call the "dirtiest" ears of any of the Mini's I've seen (and it's not dirty, really....just compared to the others. I *might* clean them twice per year) has a naturally upright ear that is always open to the environment.  

Then again, sometimes folks tinker with ears when they don't have to either. What may "need" to be done with one dog, becomes a habit for all the dogs, and what would be no problem ends up causing problems. One example is plucking ear hair - often the problems in ears in general (regardless of breed) are human-created, and a vicious cycle is born when they are advised to "pluck the ear hair regularly", when chances are high that if they never started, it would never need to have been done.

tiffy

I'm glad Tootsies docked. That tail is sad looking, IMO.

 What is "sad" about it's tail? Is this dog's tail sad too?

jennie_c_d

Kim_MacMillan

Schnauzers are generally cropped for aesthetics reasons. I have never seen a mini Schnauzer yet who developed an ear infection.

 

 

I have seen DOZENS. Then again, I dig around in strangers' dogs' ears, every day, for a living. 

 I've seen them with chronic ear issues as well but I wouldn't consider Schnauzers to be extremely prone to the issue. I haven't noticed any difference between cropped vs. natural (standing or floppy) ears and ear infections in them. I see ear problems the most in Cockers, GSDs, Labs, Goldens, Poodles of all sizes and Yorkies.

Not trying to offend anyone, but I'm a little unsure about the ear infection argument too. Ear infections are common in A LOT of breeds, floppy and "up"-eared alike, and are not very major health issues (of course, they need to be treated).

Riley and Cadie both have floppy ears, and have had ear infections before. Riley is 3 and has had maybe 2 or 3 ear infections in his lifetime. All I do is put a good amount of AloeClens (a cleaning solution for dog and cat ears) and some Panalog (the actual antibiotic) in it, and it's gone within a couple days.

I guess I just do not understand why anyone would crop their dogs ears or dock their tails. They aren't accessories to be trimmed and "made fit" to suit our preferences. Really, I think most people just crop the ears because they like the look, and for little other reasoning... both of my dogs have only had one surgery each (Cadie was spayed when she was 8, and Riley was neutered when he was 2-3 months old), and I would only have them undergo more if it was absolutely medically necessary that they do so. Surgery is always a risk, no matter how many times a vet may have performed it.

I know the breed standard for Dobes, among other breeds, calls for cropped ears and docked tails, but that does not make it right.

IrishSetterGrl

I guess I just do not understand why anyone would crop their dogs ears or dock their tails. They aren't accessories to be trimmed and "made fit" to suit our preferences.

 Just to point out that is exactly why dogs, as we know them, exist now.  Otherwise, they'd still be wolves.  Wolves were habituated then domesticated then selectively bred.... they didn't have wild chihuahua's or GSP's cruising around back in the day.  It took time and very selective breeding to create dogs and the breeds we have today. 

 I've given you the reason to dock sporting dogs tails... when dogs are actively hunting, people think they are "happy" because their tails are wagging, this is not true. IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE HUNTING. All dogs when actively tracking/hunting they will wag their tails.  Now. Place the wagging tail out in the forest, while it's working, trees, thorn bushes, etc..... voila, broken and bleeding tails.  They docked tails for a reason..... regardless of if someone agrees with it.  I cannot imagine someone not agreeing with the logic that a quick dock in a 2-3 day old pup would be enormously less painful and traumatic than a dog at a year of age who has broken his tail for a 2nd time and needs to have it AMPUTATED...... now you need anesthetic (which most will agree is dangerous) pain medication and recovery period.  The dog has to regain their balance without their tail...... all of that could have been prevented.

 Because people have cropped Dobe's ears and docked Weimaraner's tails (for example), they have not been bred for the function of these parts.  So dogs with poor tails or poor ears were not removed from the breeding programs early on, because they didn't know they were poor....  so the odds of weaker ears/tail and bad tail/ear sets/carriage are increased greatly. 

As much as I'd like to prevent the ban of cropping/docking, I honestly believe it's just a matter of time before it's banned here in the States.  PETA/HSUS are seeing to that.... removing more and more rights as pet owners.  With that in mind, I'm trying to watch tail sets and carriage in Weimaraners and hope that when the day comes I've made good choices........

 I used to be hesitant of cropping until i learned more about it and have seen freshly cropped puppies. To each their own though, although i don't find a natural dobe attractive. Some breeders will give the owner the option, but with most show breeders the puppies are either not evaluated prior to cropping, or they may turn out to be suited for the show ring later on, or i even understand that a breeder would want a dog to be what they consider an appropriate representation of the breed.

I pray that it doesn't become outlawed- once again, because rednecks with scissors will do the cropping themselves instead of a licensed vet doing it.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the argument that if outlawed, the "rednecks with scissors" will be doing it themselves. To be honest, the people who would be doing it themselves are already doing it themselves. Because the people doing it themselves only work to a certain standard (minimal), therefore they don't have to worry about perfect aesthetics. There are many people who do their own crops and docks as it is, and they have the option to get it done by a professional! Money talks, or in this case saving money and gettin' er done talks. It's not going to stop these same people from doing it no matter what laws are in place.

At the same time, I don't think that any responsible breeder, show breeder, or working breeder, would begin suddenly doing their own at-home surgical amputations if the law did pass. Most folks, I would direly hope, have certain values that will prohibit them from doing that, because it is a dangerous, painful, and often messy procedure (docking less messy, but still painful and requires skill). And all it takes is to be reported once to have everything you've worked for ruined.  If it did become outlawed, the kennel clubs would not allow (I don't know about the working clubs, but I'd assume they don't want association with illegal practices even if they don't support them) dogs that were born after the law was in place to be shown.

Those who would still do it after the laws were passed, are the folks who are doing it now anyhow on their own, in their homes, sheds, or garages.

I think if it was outlawed, we'd all just get used to it.  In the general scheme of things, it's really not as though world peace is at stake if we outlaw docking and cropping. Personally, I'd like to do away with shock collars first.  At least the crop only hurts once;-)

Just a funny thought, if cropping is justified to prevent ear infections, then why are we not chopping the crap out of Cocker Spaniels????  Does anyone know a breed that gets more ear infections than they do?

As to the tails, when they outlaw docking, I want someone to do some stem cell research that can match a ice fluffy liver red merle tail for re-attachment on my Sequoyah so that it won't appear that I've flaunted any laws.  

The guys who cut a dog for fighting will keep doing it, and when they're caught, it will suddenly become someone else's dog that they're just minding.  But, if we are diligent and prosecute them, they will end up in the NFL where we can keep a closer eye on them.