Another Neighbor attacked

Yes, there are other breeds that could be that way too.  But, the harsh truth is that your breed and my breed and a few others have proven that in the same types of situations as those other breeds they are much more likely to be a danger.  As for my own breed, I know that it isn't even a matter of that they "could" be that way, it's that they "are". 
 

I know there are breed rules and breed guidelines.
I know that an APBT owner should NEVER, EVER take their dog to a dog park. EVER. It's one of the FIRST things you learn as a responsible APBT owner.

I know that one little bad incident with a dog can cause an APBT to then on hate ALL dogs.
I know that once a pit bull becomes a certain age (usually 2-5) that they can become dog aggressive. It can just happen.
But responsible pit bull owners have to be aware of these things and take the extra care to NOT irresponsibly put their dog into a position to, well, fail.


But in the same sense, I love my dog and my breed of choice and I will do WHATEVER I HAVE TO to make sure that my right to own her or future pit bulls IS NOT taken from me.

No, I cannot make up for ALL the irresponsible owners out there and I shouldn't have to. If people targeted the correct thing, I wouldn't have to worry about it.

I think some of the problem is that while there were some great suggestions on how to get this situation under control the cities and towns just aren't going to be able to enforce them enough for them to make a difference.  And, there are certainly great owners as shown here and horrible owners who shouldn't have any dog let alone difficult breeds.  But, the towns can't distinguish between the two.  So, they want to impose these bans for control.  It's the only way they can.  It stinks but it's the real world. 

And, it doesn't help at all when something happens and all the "good" owners get defensive and place blame elsewhere or try to paint the breed as something else.

I sort of relate it to renting an apartment.  There are so many people out there that let their dogs destroy other peoples property and don't clean up, etc. that it's hard to find pet housing now.  Is it the dogs, no, but the only way this can be controlled is to not allow, "ban" them.  Most landlords aren't going to take the chance that you are a "good" owner and won't do what the last tenant did.

Pit bulls are banned already in the town I live in.  In a different town in my state chows are banned--and they are the ONLY breed banned in that town. 

Hi, I'm new to this forum (my name is Elayne) but I guess I am going to really get my feet wet and jump right into this topic. I would ask everyone for only 1 moment to dismiss the "breed" of the dog and see what the real issue is re: this old man being attacked. If dog attacks are as common as you say in your area then I would suggest that every responsible adult in your community get together and march right into your town hall and DEMAND that your city officials do their job and enforce leash laws, dangerous dog laws and impose stiff fines and punishment for any dog owner who does not take his responsibility seriously. If resident in your town are truley in fear of any dogs that are running loose then you have a right and an obligation to hold your town officials accountable. I am the owner of a 7yr old female APBT and an 8 yr old male Rottie. I recognize the fact that many, many people are afraid of my dogs due to their breed. I have had my fur babies since they were very young, they have never bitten anyone and I make sure that they never will because I am responsible. They have a very secure enclosed area to exercise, they are never left even in the fenced yard un-supervised, I would no more let one of my dogs off leash then walk blindfolded on a highway. I recognize that they (because they are dogs not because of their breeds) could end up in a situation that could cause them to attack. ie: in unfamiliar area, un-supervised, taunted, injured etc. I have no intention of allowing my dogs to end up in this sort of situation. I am not the least bit un-sympathetic to what you are going through in your community but please don't fool yourself into thinking that banning any of these dogs will solve your problem. People who are ignorant enough to allow their pets to run loose and pose a threat to the public will simply get another breed and do the same thing. Let your officials know that they either do their jobs or you will vote someone in that will. And please believe me, no one hates an irresponsible pitbull owner more then a responsible one.

ORIGINAL: Elayne

Hi, I'm new to this forum (my name is Elayne) but I guess I am going to really get my feet wet and jump right into this topic. I would ask everyone for only 1 moment to dismiss the "breed" of the dog and see what the real issue is re: this old man being attacked. If dog attacks are as common as you say in your area then I would suggest that every responsible adult in your community get together and march right into your town hall and DEMAND that your city officials do their job and enforce leash laws, dangerous dog laws and impose stiff fines and punishment for any dog owner who does not take his responsibility seriously. If resident in your town are truley in fear of any dogs that are running loose then you have a right and an obligation to hold your town officials accountable. I am the owner of a 7yr old female APBT and an 8 yr old male Rottie. I recognize the fact that many, many people are afraid of my dogs due to their breed. I have had my fur babies since they were very young, they have never bitten anyone and I make sure that they never will because I am responsible. They have a very secure enclosed area to exercise, they are never left even in the fenced yard un-supervised, I would no more let one of my dogs off leash then walk blindfolded on a highway. I recognize that they (because they are dogs not because of their breeds) could end up in a situation that could cause them to attack. ie: in unfamiliar area, un-supervised, taunted, injured etc. I have no intention of allowing my dogs to end up in this sort of situation. I am not the least bit un-sympathetic to what you are going through in your community but please don't fool yourself into thinking that banning any of these dogs will solve your problem. People who are ignorant enough to allow their pets to run loose and pose a threat to the public will simply get another breed and do the same thing. Let your officials know that they either do their jobs or you will vote someone in that will. And please believe me, no one hates an irresponsible pitbull owner more then a responsible one.

Elayne i agree with you and already told bob pretty much the same thing... rather i asked him if he was actually trying to help people be better dog owners or was he hiding from the bigbad pit bulls... and he said i was insulting him and being rude [8|] soooo..... just to warn you.. he'll probably say the same thing to you too...

but YES i agree!! if pit bulls and bad owners are THAT bad in the area then what ever happened to old fashioned march into the court room with a crowd and demand something to be done?? it worked in the olden days!! my family has an ancient ledge...  family journal really that has been handed down to each generation... and it dates back to the 1870s... one document in this journal tells of an event where an entire town in Alabama rallied together to oust a controversial teacher. apparently she was partying, drinking, sleeping around, not being a model citizen OR a good teacher... so they ran her out of town on a rail so to speak. no you cant really get away with that TODAY.... but there are other forms of dealing with the situation. but people are just too cowardly to bother!!!!
is it your town or isnt it?
if you dont like it then MOVE... or FIX the problem. but please stop complaining about it!

edit to add... your dogs are beauties by the way!

Well, if certain dogs are considered potentially deadly weapons, why not treat them like guns?  You need a license through the state to own one.  This could help ensure responsible owners.
 
Or better yet, what about like a driver's licence... you need to take a paper test (and a detailed one) to get a license.  Then you can get a dog.  But you can lose that liscence, because it's a privilage and not a right.
 
I'll be honest... I've heard and read the pitbull stories.  I read two in the Chicago tribune that made my skin crawl.  Absolutely horrific stories!!  I don't know if it's Pitts or people who are breeding certain qualities into them...?  But I'll never own one.  And yup, sounds dumb, but I'd rather be on the other side of the street if one is being walked by their owner.
 
Actually, it wasn't until this website that I had the opportunity to hear about some good pitts.  But then again, I grew up in an area where dog fighting was engaged in.  My neighbor across the street when I was young shot his dog because he lost a fight and the dog was really injured.  His kid was my younger brothers best friend... I still remember him crying over his dead dog.  Terrible.
 
My bottom line, I don't advocate banning them.  There's got to be a better solution?!?  Can we just perhaps ban dog owners?  [&:]

Well, if certain dogs are considered potentially deadly weapons,

 
You think that pits are the only breed that can kill..
 
Take a look at this web site and the news stories.
 
[linkhttp://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/8/ShowForum.aspx]http://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/8/ShowForum.aspx[/link]
 
 

i've already talked about making a license for certain breeds before.... in depth actually.... the way i see it is - cars are not dangerous but the drivers are... guns dont kill people.... the one who pulled the trigger is at fault.. or the adult in charge that left the gun available to a child is at fault... dogs are animals with basic instincts to live in a healthy balanced society... but people are so danged weird and abnormal with their own social interactions that they screw up the dog.

people people people! some dogs can get screwed up by their owners and be totally harmless (like my Ben - a bulldog breed) but others can get screwed up and totally go apes**t and hurt someone or another animal. SOMETIMES its this breed, sometimes its that breed. but the larger and more determined the breed, the greater the damage.
its the difference between being shot with buckshot from a shot gun or a BB from a BB gun.... but even BB guns can kill under the righ conditions.

if they passed a law tomorrow that said i had to get a license to keep and own future bulldog types i would be the first in line to get that license. thats how much my breed means to me.
but meanwhile i do my best to help educate and maybe turn a few hard hearts and open some closed minds..... i might as well be trying to cut diamonds with my teeth....

Bob, I am curious.  What mix is your dog?

These stories are, of course, awful.  However, the dogs may NOT be Pits. Even the ACO officer here in town didn't know the difference between an Americna Bulldog and a Pit until I told her about it and she has been an ACO for TWENTY THREE YEARS.

I suspect that these were intact males who had been pestered by kids.  That is NO reason for them to attack another kid, but sadly, it often means exactly that. The bozos who own these dogs should be fined int the thousands of dollars and not allowed to ever own anything larger than a cat again

As for all Pits being dangerous, have you ever worked at an animal shelter? I have volunteered at ours for years and I can tell you that we aren't afraid of Pits.  The Lab and shepherd mixes, OTOH... I suggest you put your moeny where you mouth is and go see the OTHER side of the story.  The next time you are in MY neck of the woods, stop by.  I will be happy to show you what a well bred bully is like!

I can understand where Bob is coming from.  In my neighborhood in just a  couple of year's time 1.  the little girl 2 doors down was attacked and badly bitten on face, head, arms, legs and sides by a pit/boxer mix.  Witnesses, who got the dog off Val said she had done nothing to provoke the dog.  the dog had lived there 3-4 years and never a problem.  2.  Pits dug into the yard behind me to get at her foster dogs and she barely got them to safty time.  The animal control was so scared of them they woudln;t even try to removed them and Linda had to wait til the owners came home to get them.  We believe they were used for fighinting, or in training for fighthing.  3.  Hubby was walking our 12 year old golden and a pit came after him and hubby bot between the the dog and our old man.  luckily the owner was in athe yard and he grabbed the dog--who wa stilling lunging and snarling at Buck.  He never seemed to pay any attention to hubby..  Hubby and Buck had done nothing.All these incidents occured withing yelling disatance of our house.  I do not want to see pits in my neighborhood after these 3 things.  Never had a problem with the cockers next door, the mut and chis on the other side of us, the border collie just down the street, the black lab at the end of the street, the lab, greyhound and mutts across the street, or the other muts that are on our little horse shoe shaped, short street. 
 
When all these things happen within a couple of years time, it does ten to make one nervous about the breed of dog that was involved each time.  You can't help it.  My one DIL's sister had a pit and she talked about him like he was a big marshmellow and  I wondered by my DIL was scared of him.  Only after he died did I find out he had bitten two people, they moved out of the county, and he bit her when she was either trying to get him to come in or go out, i don't remember.  She truly loved him and was crushed when he died.  Her ex husband bought her a pit puppy, but she gave it back to him..didn't want to have to worry about it biting when he was grown up.
 
I do not believe in breed bans, but i am truly nervous around pits and a few other breeds--like GSD. As i child i use to play with a neighbors shepherd, Colonel.  Then afer my son was bitten while delivering ness papers and my other son was ibtten in the face because he was sitting on the ground in front of me at company picnic and someone tossed a bone to the VP's shepherd that was in front of Randy and the dog turned and nailed him right in the face for no reason other t=han as we were later told, he "didn't like people around when he ate.;  Why bring him to a picnic?  Idiots.  But since then i am leery of shepherds.
 
It just makes sense that when you have been scared by something 2-3 times uyou8 are naturally going to want to avoid that thing if at all possible.

Keep posting this stuff, i don't care.  Little stories here and there are not enough to change my opinions on pit bulls. I love them, and will continue to, no matter what others think. I will also continue to love german shepherds, rotties, etc.

ORIGINAL: Elayne

Hi, I'm new to this forum (my name is Elayne) but I guess I am going to really get my feet wet and jump right into this topic. I would ask everyone for only 1 moment to dismiss the "breed" of the dog and see what the real issue is re: this old man being attacked. If dog attacks are as common as you say in your area then I would suggest that every responsible adult in your community get together and march right into your town hall and DEMAND that your city officials do their job and enforce leash laws, dangerous dog laws and impose stiff fines and punishment for any dog owner who does not take his responsibility seriously. If resident in your town are truley in fear of any dogs that are running loose then you have a right and an obligation to hold your town officials accountable. I am the owner of a 7yr old female APBT and an 8 yr old male Rottie. I recognize the fact that many, many people are afraid of my dogs due to their breed. I have had my fur babies since they were very young, they have never bitten anyone and I make sure that they never will because I am responsible. They have a very secure enclosed area to exercise, they are never left even in the fenced yard un-supervised, I would no more let one of my dogs off leash then walk blindfolded on a highway. I recognize that they (because they are dogs not because of their breeds) could end up in a situation that could cause them to attack. ie: in unfamiliar area, un-supervised, taunted, injured etc. I have no intention of allowing my dogs to end up in this sort of situation. I am not the least bit un-sympathetic to what you are going through in your community but please don't fool yourself into thinking that banning any of these dogs will solve your problem. People who are ignorant enough to allow their pets to run loose and pose a threat to the public will simply get another breed and do the same thing. Let your officials know that they either do their jobs or you will vote someone in that will. And please believe me, no one hates an irresponsible pitbull owner more then a responsible one.

We have leash laws in the county where I live as well as the park next to my home.  The average response time of animal control on our county is anywhere between 1 -24 hours.  I called AC regarding a chained dog yesterday morning , and they still haven't showed up at the location.  I have reported one dog that has been running off leash in the park next to my home , for almost 3 months. AC came out once, and said that the dog had to be leashed up before they would do something about it, and left. So the average citizen has learned that calling AC ( which is an answering machine by the way) is pretty futile. When people want to dump a dog, may of them drop the dog off at the dogpark in the middle of the night.  Six of these dogs have been caught andturned into AC since last October. Four of them were PB's, none had any ID on them. 

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

Well, not that anyone was targeting me because I don't believe that, but as an owner of an APBT, I am WELL AWARE and will be the FIRST to admit that I know darn WELL what my dog is capable of doing and have seen it first hand.
I will NEVER deny my dog's heitage. But there are OTHER dogs out there with JUST AS MUCH succeptibility to becoming dog aggressive as MY dog's breed and my point is, no breed specific fingers should be pointed at ANY dog.


Does that make any sense? I'm tired.

 
 I was not targeting you at all chewbacca, my comments are aimed more at owners in general. I agree that no breed specific fingers SHOULD be pointed at any dog, but the truth of the matter is that the "perception" of many (truth does not matter to most of them) is that APBT's are more aggressive and more inclined to attack. I can almost guarentee that should you replace every APBT in th US with a Dogo we would have the perception be on Dogo's, or if we replaced them with Chow's it would be Chow's.
 We all know it is not the breed (although the breed without training and guidance is more at risk than a poodle) but it is the popularity, combined with illegal activities (drug pushers, gang members and dog fighting) and of course your average disconnected owners who throw their dogs in the back yard and forget they have them.
 I feel your frustration, and I pray that my breed never gets popular. May the breeders keep them super expensive, and may they continue to be diligent in whom they sell one to.

ORIGINAL: lorib

Bob, I am curious.  What mix is your dog?

These stories are, of course, awful.  However, the dogs may NOT be Pits. Even the ACO officer here in town didn't know the difference between an Americna Bulldog and a Pit until I told her about it and she has been an ACO for TWENTY THREE YEARS.

I suspect that these were intact males who had been pestered by kids.  That is NO reason for them to attack another kid, but sadly, it often means exactly that. The bozos who own these dogs should be fined int the thousands of dollars and not allowed to ever own anything larger than a cat again

As for all Pits being dangerous, have you ever worked at an animal shelter? I have volunteered at ours for years and I can tell you that we aren't afraid of Pits.  The Lab and shepherd mixes, OTOH... I suggest you put your moeny where you mouth is and go see the OTHER side of the story.  The next time you are in MY neck of the woods, stop by.  I will be happy to show you what a well bred bully is like!

I have worked at a shelter for almost a year now. It is a no-kill shelter and we have many Pit and Pit mix dogs at the shelter.  I have a question for you, should we let the dogs bite a kid first and then do something about it, or try to stop it from happening.  You statements seem to indicate that you favor the first alternative.  If that is the case, how do you go about explaining that to the kid and it's family? 

i have heard that jazz music is especially soothing to dogs. maybe have a band play at the dog park from time to time?

perhaps there are jazz musicians neaerby who are dog lovers. they might be willing to donate their time.