Another Neighbor attacked

a pack of ANYTHING is a force to be reckoned with. dogs are, obviously, pack animals. when there is more than one dog, even the most cowardly of canines suddenly has a boost of courage and will surprise his owner with the radical change in behaviour and disposition.. which is why a lot of people say, when confronted with the fact that their dog has attacked someone "he was so sweet and gentle!" ...well.... he was probably the only dog! Ben was the only dog.. had his own kennel all to himself... but since we've had him and he's been allowed to be a dog.. he's getting more and more bold (in a GOOD way!!) just by playing with other dogs.
fortunately the other dogs are good friendly dogs... if they were bad dogs with people aggressive or small animal aggressive attitudes Ben would probably pick up on that and start acting like everyone else..

this is common sense to me, but i guess i shouldnt be so surprised that a lot of people outside of the dog community DONT know this! [8|]

Nicely said, DumDog.
What it really boils down to, is why there are aggressive (as opposed to merely normal) pittys roaming around loose in that area.
There is only one plausible answer, and that is organized dogfighting.  Yes, we all know that's illegal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The point is, pittys are used for fighting because of their tenacity and their high pain threshold. We are most likely not experiencing attacks from people's escaped pets here. If you're afraid for your life in your own hometown because of pitts, the best thing to do is start lobbying for a crackdown on dogfighting.
 
In the metro Detroit area, not just close to the city, pittys are immediately euthanized if they are picked up by animal control, etc. This is due to the dogfighting. Please note, there does not appear to be any problem with this in my area, but this rule is still enforced. That said, a neighbor 2 houses away has a pitty and a Rhodesian ridgeback. Both are very pleasant dogs, well-kept and well behaved, and never, ever, allowed to run around loose. Responsible owners!

How Ironic. On Little house this afternoon--or guess it would be yesterday afternoon-- the story centered around livestock being killed and wolves were blamed.  The little Garvey boy found a mama wolf in a trap and got her and her to pups to his house.  when it was found out, a "gang" was going there to kill them.  But meanwhile, a pack of dogs had trapped the boy and the Ingalls girls in their barn, dug under the door, killed the mama wolf and then were trying to get up to the hay loft where the kids were.  In a nick of time the guys arrived and killed the dogs.
 
When the boy asked WHY, the dad explained that at one time those dogs had all been family pets, but the families either stopped loving them and taking care of them of just left them and they turned wild.  The first time I ever saw that episode i remember thinging that if they had never joined up, they probably never would have turned into the killers they were.

Bob,
when my (innocent, loving, affectionate, people-loving) dog's life is threatened by BSL, I will have people like you to thank who perpetuate stereotypes and hysteria.

ORIGINAL: DumDog



and i will be the bad guy now. no one was there to witness the attack. i have seen old people with my own eyes swing their canes at dogs just because the dog is there. who is to say he didnt react out of fear?
i wont judge a situation until i am there to see it myself. the media is full of hype and you have to take it with a grain of salt.

I knew it wouldn't be long before one of the PB defenders tried to imply that it was the victims fault.. It happens in every one of these threads. I especially remember  the attempt at blaming the little 6 year old girl that was sleeping in her bed in the wee hours of the morning , for causing the maiming attack on her  a couple of months ago. That  one was really over the top....

ORIGINAL: alieliza

Bob,
when my (innocent, loving, affectionate, people-loving) dog's life is threatened by BSL, I will have people like you to thank who perpetuate stereotypes and hysteria.

All I am doing is showing what happens in communities across the country.  If you can't deal with it, then get the irresponsible breeders that sell these dogs to people that shouldn't own them, to breed a dog that that isn't so destructive in the wrong hands.

IMHO the message about Pit Bulls is exaggerated on both sides. One side states that they are dangerous, unpredictable and prone to attack people and animals for no good reason. This is incorrect. Properly trained and socialized with a vigilant owner (who in my opinion should always understand what they could be capable of in the wrong situation) they make great dogs. It is true that the owner#%92s are at fault when these dogs attack people and other dogs.
 
 The other side paints them as sweet, adorable large kittens that would never harm a fly. Shelters lie about breed types in some areas for the purpose of making sure the dog is adopted. Combined with the image of "badness" and the understanding that "they won't hurt a fly" it is not surprising that so many people have them or want them. I would like to have a nice big heavy Pit Bull that requires nothing more from me than a pat on the head occasionally and maybe a hotdog. Lovers of the breed need to start telling people that they are NOT for everyone and that effort must be put into their training, effort into making sure they are housed properly and cannot escape while you are at the office.
 
 
 The truth is that they are a large heavy breed that is great for fighting and hunting. They are not for everyone and everyone should not have one. They need exercise, discipline and preferably a job to do. Left on their own without training, discipline and exercise they can be a hazard to others. Not every shelter dog should be adopted, and not every person should be allowed to adopt a Pit Bull.
 
 its in shelters should be rescued by Pit people, who should foster and evaluate every one of them before placing them up for adoption. (a formidable task I admit, since there are tons of pits and pit crosses in the shelters) This is how most other large breed rescues operate. Dogs are taken from shelters before Joe Public ever knows they are there and if the dog is not safe it is not offered for adoption. This protects the breed from falling into the wrong hands and harming someone.
 
 Not everyone should own a Doberman, a Rott, Cane Corso, Fila, Bullmastif (fill in the blank) or a Dogo either, or any other large powerful working breed. If you are going to own one you need to invest more time in the upkeep and training of the dog, if you refuse to invest the time then you will have the potential for disaster. The risk is greater with the fighting, guarding and hunting bully breeds than it is with your more mellow breeds.
 
 I love these dogs but let#%92s face it. As you walk down the street with your dog and your neighbor#%92s dog jumps the fence and runs into the road, what breed do you prefer he be? A Lab, a Collie, or a Pit Bull. I would rather be attacked by a pack of Labradors than by a pack of Pit Bulls. I would also rather be attacked by a pack of golden retrievers than by a pack of Dogo#%92s. You cannot compare the two. A good swift kick will deter most labs and retrievers, but pain is not a reason to stop for some breeds. They are resistant to pain and in some cases it is more of a stimulate when they are in high drive.
 
 I own a Dogo. He is a wonderful dog. He sleeps with my son, he is goofy, he has floppy ears that make him look sweet and harmless, but he was bred for the purpose of taking down large dangerous game. Watch one of his breed take down a 400lb pig, see the intensity, they show no sign of letting loose their hold and no lessening of their intent to stop the pig, even when wounded. Most do not even show signs of being hurt until after the game is dispatched. Now tell me they are the same as the Vizsla (which I also own). And tell me that my Vizsla is as much of a risk to people should he decide to bite.
 
 If my neighbor decides to get a dog as a family pet with the intention of playing ball in the backyard and going on a few leisurely walks ( a good owner really since a lot do not even do this) I sure hope he gets a Golden Retriever or a Lab and not a Pit Bull. We do the breed a disservice when we make them out to be sweet, wonderful, harmless dogs suitable for anyone. They are indeed awesome dogs but owning them comes at a higher price (or it should) than owning other breeds.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: DumDog



and i will be the bad guy now. no one was there to witness the attack. i have seen old people with my own eyes swing their canes at dogs just because the dog is there. who is to say he didnt react out of fear?
i wont judge a situation until i am there to see it myself. the media is full of hype and you have to take it with a grain of salt.

I knew it wouldn't be long before one of the PB defenders tried to imply that it was the victims fault.. It happens in every one of these threads. I especially remember  the attempt at blaming the little 6 year old girl that was sleeping in her bed in the wee hours of the morning , for causing the maiming attack on her  a couple of months ago. That  one was really over the top....

and i knew you expected it so thats why i did it. and i didnt blame anyone... pay attention.... i highlighted the areas that are important. none of us were there. there WERE no witnesses. two key elements.
i want you to answer this question: what would YOU do if you saw two pit bulls charging at you?
you dont know if they're friendly or not - they could be! - but if you react out of fear over the fact that they are a certain breed... then they're pick up on that.
i see your own dog there in your sig.... if i saw that dog come charging at me from out of nowhere then, yeah it would me a bit nervous! a dog charging at you is still just a dog charging at you.... then you have TWO dogs..... what to do?
me and my bulldog were rushed at by two large aggressive labradors!! but i didnt swing my fist or kick at them!

and besides that, were you even here when the article was posted about the two pit bulls that saved a woman from being mauled by a chow?

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

For most people, the main concern is the damage they cause, not just a bite. I don't hear many packs labs or poodle attacking people and pets. I am sure someone will find a story about a pack of poodles now, ha. The strength and damage of some breeds, not just pitbulls, is the scary part. In my case it was a Rott.. Just one thank goodness. More that one would have been a diff. ending I am afraid.

_____________________________

I do think that is it.  It isn't the bite, it is THE BITES, the attack that goes on and on  Both of my boys have been bitten--one while riding in the middle of the street throwing papers 9he was the 3rd child the dog had bitten), the other was sitting in front of me at a company picnic eating when someone tossed a bone to the VP's dog walking in front of Randy--and it turned and nailed Randy right int he face.  In each case, there was only one bite. Both dogs were German Shepherds. When the Pit/boxer mix around the bend attacked the little girl 2 houses down, she was bitten on arms, legs, head, face and even her side.  They decided that dog meant to kill Val and it was killed right then.  Never had a problem with that dog in the 3-4 years it had lived there til that day.

And as Sallya said, I have never heard of a group of poodles or pointers or irish Setters or Collies or Goldens, or Pekes, etc attacking--altho it could have happened, could happen tomorrow.  But very often it is 2-3 pits that attack together.  Maybve if never together they might not attack, maybe it is a "compitetion" thing, who knows.  But i do believe it is that multi-dog attacks that isn't just a single bite, but multiple bites, even death, that is causing so much trouble for all pits.

And this is what happens many times in our area, since many of tehse dogs are purchased in pairs.

ORIGINAL: DumDog

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: DumDog



and i will be the bad guy now. no one was there to witness the attack. i have seen old people with my own eyes swing their canes at dogs just because the dog is there. who is to say he didnt react out of fear?
i wont judge a situation until i am there to see it myself. the media is full of hype and you have to take it with a grain of salt.

I knew it wouldn't be long before one of the PB defenders tried to imply that it was the victims fault.. It happens in every one of these threads. I especially remember  the attempt at blaming the little 6 year old girl that was sleeping in her bed in the wee hours of the morning , for causing the maiming attack on her  a couple of months ago. That  one was really over the top....

and i knew you expected it so thats why i did it. and i didnt blame anyone... pay attention.... i highlighted the areas that are important. none of us were there. there WERE no witnesses. two key elements.
i want you to answer this question: what would YOU do if you saw two pit bulls charging at you?
you dont know if they're friendly or not - they could be! - but if you react out of fear over the fact that they are a certain breed... then they're pick up on that.
i see your own dog there in your sig.... if i saw that dog come charging at me from out of nowhere then, yeah it would me a bit nervous! a dog charging at you is still just a dog charging at you.... then you have TWO dogs..... what to do?
me and my bulldog were rushed at by two large aggressive labradors!! but i didnt swing my fist or kick at them!

and besides that, were you even here when the article was posted about the two pit bulls that saved a woman from being mauled by a chow?

If I see 2 Pits charging at me or my dog or child, at least one of them  will need emergency medical treatment. What would you do, see if they bite first, and then react?  By the way, the second tatic that the PB fans always use, is that the dogs are always being picked on by the media, or the victims, or the police reports...   

having been charged at - and thwarted it successfully - i wouldnt make the first move by swinging at them before they were within reach. i have family in law enforcement and we ALL know how to manage a physical altercation... and a dog attack isnt much different than a human attack.
no not everyone has that knowledge... but i do... i use it... i benefit from.... my dog and i were not rushed to the ER for severe bit wounds from two pissed off labs and my BULLDOG did not lunge back at them.

Bob - I am sorry to hear about this attack. The poor person and family. Thankfully, it sounds like they will recover.

I am not sure what you were trying to accomplish in your OP, except to show why you are not a pit fan. It seems to me that you base your opinion on what you read in the paper, rather than personal interactions with a wide variety of pit bulls. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

Yes, parts of this country are hot beds for dog fighting and poorly bred pit bulls. (Hotlanta always comes to mind considering the crime rate.) However, that doesn't mean that every dog coming out of those areas is bad. Rosco is from a hood, and was probably bred for the wrong reasons. With training and proper care, he is a breed ambassador.

Please be mindful that there may be people with no pit exposure on the board, who read your posts and become more concerned about pits, rather than making their own decision based on personal interaction.

ORIGINAL: dgriego

IMHO the message about Pit Bulls is exaggerated on both sides. One side states that they are dangerous, unpredictable and prone to attack people and animals for no good reason. This is incorrect. Properly trained and socialized with a vigilant owner (who in my opinion should always understand what they could be capable of in the wrong situation) they make great dogs. It is true that the owner's are at fault when these dogs attack people and other dogs.

yone. They are indeed awesome dogs but owning them comes at a higher price (or it should) than owning other breeds.

Can you explain to me, why the neighbor of an owner of these dogs should have to trust the safety of his family and any of his own  pets  to  how well his or her  neighbors  PB's  are socialized and trained ?  Are you confident in placing the safety of your family in the hands of a neighbors judgement and skill level in dog training?   How many dogs do you see on a daily basis that are not well trained?  I see it every day, and more often than not I see dogs that pull, dogs that don't know basic obediance commands, etc.. etc..  Seeing  a Pit Bull(s) ( as well as other breeds)   dragging their  owners around on the end of a leash and choke collar is pretty common place. 

so bob what do you to fix the problem? complaining about it doesnt help, thats for sure!
do you have the courage to go up to someone being drug by their dog and show them the proper way to walk their dog? or do you stand back and hide behind a tree and grumble about how bad these people are?

your posts are not helpful to any cause for any breed. why dont you try posting some GOOD news for a change?

Not every shelter dog should be adopted, and not every person should be allowed to adopt a Pit Bull.

 
As much as I want to chime in on this topic, I'm really not going too, but I will give some of my [sm=2cents.gif]. I do agree with Dgriego here. At the shelter I volunteer at, anyone who wants to adopt a pitbull or pit mix goes through a very strict screening process, as well as a home visit. They do the best they can to ensure these dogs go to homes where not only the people will be able to handle these dogs, but they will get the love, training, and care they deserve. I absolutely love pitbulls, but at the same time, I come from an area where mostly all the pitbulls are very well trained and loving. I have yet to run into one that isn't. The problem here is the labs and lab mixes that are untrained, unsocialized and very hyper.
 
One day, a long time from now, when I have alot of time to devote and when I am not working full time, I plan to adopt a pitbull, but like I said, this is a long ways down the road.