Another Neighbor attacked

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

  I have a question for you, should we let the dogs bite a kid first and then do something about it, or try to stop it from happening.  You statements seem to indicate that you favor the first alternative.  If that is the case, how do you go about explaining that to the kid and it's family? 

Interesting question and always a delimma with shelter dogs when you don't have their history. 

Bobsk8, how does your shelter handle this?

From what Bob has said before, his shelter will try and adopt out known child-aggressive dogs.  Which floors me.  I'd put a dog like that down in a second.

- - -

I think the pitbulls are in it with the Chinese and the illegal Mexican immigramts.  Goal: world domination. 

well, if we were trying to stop kids from being bitten, then we have a lot of work to do. That means no german shepherds, no rottweilers, no dachshunds....nevermind. We'll just have to do away with every dog that has teeth. [&:]

ORIGINAL: willowchow

Again I ask, If the dog has never bitten someone how do you know that it will??????

Well, my dog has never bitten anyone but I'm pretty sure she would (especially a kid) put in a situation where she wasn't controlled.

BOB--Why would this kid and family be near this dog that would bite?  If any family or kid tried to come near my dog they'd catch holy heck from me.  And, honestly, if she was alone for some reason they'd probably have to physically chase after her for them to be close enough.  I'm just not sure most dogs are just going to run up to a group of people and start biting. 

I mean I agree the dogs are not innocent in all this.  But, at some point people need to take responsibility too.  If they are going to act like idiots then they are going to get themselves hurt.

Almost everyone of the PB attacks that I have posted have occurred when people while  walking in their neighborhoods such as the OP in this thread.  One was a disabled women who was attacked in her own home, and a 6 year old girl in her own bed in the middle of the night. There are many dogs, just in the town that I live in, as in any large city,  that are running around during the day unleashed.  Most are friendly, but a few are not.  In some of the poorer areas of the city, having unleashed dogs roaming around is pretty common. I have 2 friends that are in law enforcement , and they tell me that they are nervous in some areas of the city, especially at night, due to large numbers of unleashed aggressive dogs in certain neighborhoods.

I don't feel that a parent of a small child should have to worry about some loose and aggressive dog attacking their child while it is out playing in it's  neighborhood and sometimes on it's own property. I have seen people actually move to get away from what they consider to be a potentially dangerous situation involving a neighbors pet(s). 

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

i was avoiding your question. i found it unfounded.

how do you stop a dog from attacking a child? i ask... how do you know it will attack a child?

i have never seen the "child killer" breed of dog. can you tell me where to find out what one looks like?

your dog looks kind of aggressive to me. can you assure me it will not attack?

Still won't answer the question,  Oh well, that is what I expected....[]

don't feel that a parent of a small child should have to worry about some loose and aggressive dog attacking

 
i agree with this. But, we don't have this problem up here. I realize that atlanta is a high crime area, and there are probably more things for the law enforcement to be taking care of, but i feel SOMETHING needs to be done in your area. Still, the fact that these dogs are loose is not the dog's fault.

I must say this can be most confusing.  Some say pits, etc are not really dangerous, they are not really aggressive, they are getting bad reps, that it sin't bad dogs, but bad owners.  Other says these breeds of dogs have to really be controled and watched closely, the agressive tendency is just under the skin. 
 
In my opinion any breed of dog that has to be watched closely and has to have certain kind of people as owners is a dangerous dog if owners are not 'up to date' on the ins and outs of that breed.  I am not saying all dogs of those breeds are bad.  I am sure there are many that would not even want to attack a flea biting it's tail much less a human or another dog.
 
In most cases dogs do what they were bred for--guard, hunt, herd, fight.  That is the purpose of their breed.  I do not expect my goldens to go herd sheep and they are about as much use for gaurding as the toads that live in my flower bed out front.  I do not expetct the border collie down the street to go retrieve ducks and all the gaurding she does is turn over on her back to get belly scratch.
 
There is a BEAUTIFUL golden chow around the corner that is free almost all of the time--she was laying out in the street when i went to the boat last night.  I hate seeing her loose like that.  NOT BECAUSE SHE IS A THREAT, but because I am scared she is going to get hit by a car.  Kids ride their skatboards and bikes around her all the time and she just watches.  There are a couple of other small dogs that run free a lot--have almost hit one of them several times--and she pays no attention to them.  It would break my heart to see her dead in the street.  Luckily that street is s shaped there and cars have to go slow.  On the other hand, the first chow I ever knew was  a brown one belonging to the lake patrolman at lake Tyler and it woudl attack any male except owner.  Females were fine.  Strange thing, they had him since he was a tiny puppy, so no mistreatment by a male to caused that t4endency to attack males.  And i know Dan would never have mistreated that dog--he loved him so much.  The family always felt safe with the dog outside.
 
And not long ago on one of my golden forums, a golden had to be put to sleep because it had attacked a child twice.  The only dog that ever bit me was an irish Setter and it didn't even break the skin.  Mom said that was entirely my fault bcaue i would not leave the dog alone.  And the Sammy that lived mext door to my Mom for several years was about as vicious a dog as I have ever known.   Only people safe from it was the Mom, Dad and daughter.  It tore one 10 year old girl's leg up so bad it took a couple of surgeries to repair her calf.  Any dog can bite.  But I do velieve if it is a breed that takes certain people to own./control then the potential for it being aggressive is much higher than for other breeds.  Is just to bad that only the right people are the  only ones owning these breeds.
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: denise m
And don't get me started on guns!

 
Oh please, start on guns.  But in another thread.

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Well, if certain dogs are considered potentially deadly weapons,

You think that pits are the only breed that can kill..

Take a look at this web site and the news stories.

[linkhttp://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/8/ShowForum.aspx]http://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/8/ShowForum.aspx[/link]

 
Nope, please read my post again... actually, the part that you quoted.  I never said that only pitts are dangerous.  I said that *certain* dogs could be dangerous. 
 
 

ORIGINAL: probe1957

Oh please, ...

 
Didn't you just post something about just staying in the NDR section.  I may have to take back what I said in the other thread.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

you are referring to people who have previously commited a crime and paid the price through jail time.

the dogs you are referring to may not have ever bitten anyone before and may not ever bite anyone. you are just scared of them.  know one can help you get over your fears but you. seek help please.

That wasn't my question. Why are you trying to avoid answering it?  I will ask it once more,

  I have a question for you, should we let the dogs bite a kid first and then do something about it, or try to stop it from happening.  You statements seem to indicate that you favor the first alternative.  If that is the case, how do you go about explaining that to the kid and it's family? 

 
Well if that's the case, families might as well not get a dog at all. ALL dogs have the potential to bite. The only thing we can do to minimize the chances of getting bit is to make sure the dog in question seems fairly good and tolerant around children and most importantly to teach our children how to respect and how to behave properly around a dog. That includes not bothering the dog while it's eating or playing with its' favorite toy, not bothering the dog when it's sleeping, not cornering the dog when it's trying to get away and not being abusive to it by sitting on it and/or pulling on its' ears or tail. Maybe this only happened in *my* family, but we were taught these things, we were repeatedly told these things and if we happened to not listen to what we were told and got bit by a dog, there was Hell to pay. Meaning for us.. not the dog. After all, we were taught that the dog is just an animal and doesn't know better. We, on the other hand, should know better and if we got bitten, it was our fault and we got punished.

I don't feel that a parent of a small child should have to worry about some loose and aggressive dog attacking their child while it is out playing in it's  neighborhood and sometimes on it's own property. I have seen people actually move to get away from what they consider to be a potentially dangerous situation involving a neighbors pet(s). 

 
     GOOD FOR YOU!!! Thank you!!! Its nice to hear someone take the side of common sense in the controversial subject of pit bulls!
     I'm not a pit bull hater, but I don't fully trust any member of that breed. They're magnificent creatures, but genetics are genetics - and regardless of the fact that a well bred pit bull (a rarity) owned by good, repsonsible people, may not show aggressive tendencies NOW does not mean it will never show them. All it will take is for that little genetic switch to turn on at the wrong moment ... We have a dog who is Shepherd mixed with pit bull who we need to be VERY cautious with. He's unpredictable, and he has been through extensive obedience training since we adopted him @ 5 months. He's now 6yrs and for the past 18 months or so, this always docile dog has developed a nasty aggressive streak that has no basis in any health problem. My Vet works with quite a number of pit bulls (practically all we have here) and has told me he sees this frequently with the breed - around 4-5 years old especially males of that breed will develop an increased level of aggression. This dog has been used as a therapy dog in the past he was just so goofy and outgoing with other people and dogs. Thank God he is still that way with most people, children, but we know this could change as well.
     Anyway, if I had a dollar for every time one of the "good" Pits attacked a person or animal without provocation, I'd be retired already. A pit bull that was allowed to wander, who was always friendly, never aggressive, even to other animals, once attacked a group of young teenagers coming home from school. Their group was walking directly behind me that day, and when I crossed the street and reached my apartment door, I heard the screaming. This SOB dog was attacking one of the boys, a kid who was big and strong for his age but was no match for this dog. His friends were beating it with their bookbags, the boy managed to get away and ran up a car - where that animal followed. I never saw another dog manage to get on top of the hood of a car. Their athleticism, their bite strength, tenacity, power - this is a recipe for disaster and I don't care how many good ones there are, its too risky to have bad ones on the loose.
     I think that if all the pit bull supporters had been involved in or seen as many attacks as I have, they'd change their tune, regardless of how good their own dogs is. I've heard people tell me how sweet their pit bull is only to witness it go for someone unprovoked at some point in its life. I'm not even talking about dog agression - they are unpredicatble around humans. As I mentioned, my mother's Shep/Pit cross has attacked me. I've been around dogs all my life and never knew fear of dogs - respect yes, but not fear - until this dog went for me. I still have nightmares. I've been around Shepherds all my life, a breed that has a propensity for aggression, yet NONE of the dozens of Shepherds my aunt bred/owned or the Shepherd who graced my life for 3 short years ever displayed that degree of unpredictability ...    
    

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

i was avoiding your question. i found it unfounded.

how do you stop a dog from attacking a child? i ask... how do you know it will attack a child?

i have never seen the "child killer" breed of dog. can you tell me where to find out what one looks like?

your dog looks kind of aggressive to me. can you assure me it will not attack?

Still won't answer the question,  Oh well, that is what I expected....[]

You still won't answer my question either, Bob. Are you in favor of breed-specific legislation, particularly pit bull bans?

I don't understand why you keep beating around the bush and avoiding the question. If you are in favor of bans, why not simply argue for them (using concrete data, not anectodal evidence) instead of ambiguously hinting at your beliefs with inflammatory stories? Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but if you don't feel strongly enough to directly state what you believe then it's hard to take your ideas seriously.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

i was avoiding your question. i found it unfounded.

how do you stop a dog from attacking a child? i ask... how do you know it will attack a child?

i have never seen the "child killer" breed of dog. can you tell me where to find out what one looks like?

your dog looks kind of aggressive to me. can you assure me it will not attack?

Still won't answer the question,  Oh well, that is what I expected....[]

and you never answered any of my questions either [8|] in fact you got insulted and became offended at my questions....
and yes i have gone up to the thug looking rough around the edge types with their pit bulls and had lengthy chats about their dogs and training. i grew up in a town with dog fighters.... everyone it seemed fought their dogs or WANTED to fight dogs, or at least WENT TO SEE dog fights. i talked to them all the time.... had to... some of them were teachers!!

two years ago at the dog park there was a thug looking gang banger type with his little pit bull doing flips on the end of his leash wanting to .. play? kill? God only knows!.... so i started talking to him about the excess energy his dog had.. had he considered weight pulling or spring poles? he said he did try some drag weights, but i told him to be careful because just like when people weight train you can pull muscles and ruin your back..... he didnt know that! no he really didnt!
i feel like i helped him a lot. you can see it in someone's eyes when the light bulb comes on.... or maybe the dim flicker of a candle.... but its still there. i dont hide from people. i approach in a friendly manner and with concern.... not every person that looks like a gang banger or thug is a complete gorilla brained psychotic monster. 
and quite frankly, i prefer those types to the type of people that hide in the shadows and plot doom to their enemies and the things they fear.
are we burning witches or are throwing out the wheat that is contaminated and poisoning people? lets get to the source of the problem and fix it before it creates MORE problems. disposing of the problems as they pop up is NOT fixing things. 

As for allowing dogs biting kids and comparing it to child molesters.... i guess that means your way of thinking is "Guilty until proven innocent" .... well guess what pal... there are laws protecting us from people like you. if you're stupid enough to let your kid wander around the neighbourhood and into homes of strangers then you're going to  get slapped hard in the face by reality.
AND a lot of child molesters are the least likely suspects! your cousin, your uncle, your own father, the preacher, the school teacher, the friendly mailman or police officer that you chat with all the time. We dont have a way to find them until they get caught in the act. I KNOW THIS TO BE A FACT BECAUSE I WAS ALMOST A VICTIM.
do NOT compare the two. you're totally off your rocker to even think that is a likely argument and comparison.
For all we know YOU could be a child molester. and how do you know that your own dog wont bite someone some day? circumstances mean everything. dont get too full of yourself..... it will bite you, literally, in the butt some day.

Now stop condemning certain breeds and start trying to fix the problem in your area... you witch hunter you...

Gee,
 
Here is a interesting little quote from a AC director.
 

Haven Human Society president Norm Ryan said his animal regulation officers' statistics show pit bulls are not the most bite-prone dogs within the city limits. That dubious distinction goes to Labrador retrievers. Labs accounted for 22 bites, seven of which were serious, in 2006, according to Haven.
Pit bulls came in second, however, with a tally of 13 bites, four of which were serious. With 12 reported bites, the Jack Russell terrier was No. 3.
"What, are we going to ban Jack Russell terriers, too?" Ryan said, laughing at the idea of a ban on pit bulls.

 
[linkhttp://www.redding.com/news/2007/jul/29/bad-dog/]http://www.redding.com/news/2007/jul/29/bad-dog/[/link]
 
 
O by the way if you think shepherds aren't involved in attacks.  Take a look at the news stories posted here..
 
[linkhttp://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/8/ShowForum.aspx]http://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/8/ShowForum.aspx[/link]
 
 

ORIGINAL: HoundMusic


    I think that if all the pit bull supporters had been involved in or seen as many attacks as I have, they'd change their tune, regardless of how good their own dogs is. I've heard people tell me how sweet their pit bull is only to witness it go for someone unprovoked at some point in its life. I'm not even talking about dog agression - they are unpredicatble around humans. As I mentioned, my mother's Shep/Pit cross has attacked me. I've been around dogs all my life and never knew fear of dogs - respect yes, but not fear - until this dog went for me. I still have nightmares. I've been around Shepherds all my life, a breed that has a propensity for aggression, yet NONE of the dozens of Shepherds my aunt bred/owned or the Shepherd who graced my life for 3 short years ever displayed that degree of unpredictability ...    
   

rule number ONE in pitbull/bulldog ownership.. NEVER let your guard down.
rule number TWO .. assume NOTHING.
Rule number THREE .. CONTAIN your dog and KEEP it contained unless you can be there with it on a strong leash
Rule number FOUR ... DO NOT hand that leash to someone you feel is incapable of handling your dog.

there are other rules... but you'd have to live with the breed your entire life to even care.
all dogs bite. all dogs are unpredictable. all dogs give warning signs. there are almost always warning signs before a dog flips out..... but the majority of people lack the capacity to read dog body language... especially for dominant breeds. Pit bulls and bulldog types are NOT collies and shepherds and labs.
dont compare the two.