Dog Community

DPU

Posted : 9/3/2007 1:59:39 AM

ORIGINAL: Sera_J

Breeders/Rescue Orgs screen for a reason. If you think that we need puppy mills, then you think everyone should have a dog or cat. I'm frankly shocked that anyone who works in rescue could believe this.

I believe the last statement is directed at me. Yes, I work in rescue and yes I screen and I am very experience and efficient at it. When I say no to a family, that does not end their want to adopt a dog. I would like them to listen to me just like I would like members here to listen to me but they don't. If all other rescuers say no and the want for a dog is still there, they go elsewhere, possibly to a petshop that is supplied by puppymills. Puppymills exist because of this and it is a fact that I have no control over it happening. This is not rocket science stuff...pretty basic.

Somehow there has to be way of satisfying this demand and at the same time place the dog in a good home.

Sera_J

Posted : 9/3/2007 2:04:59 AM

ORIGINAL: timsdat

***NOT EVERYONE WHO WANTS A DOG(/CAT) DESERVES ONE***

Breeders/Rescue Orgs screen for a reason. If you think that we need puppy mills, then you think everyone should have a dog or cat. I'm frankly shocked that anyone who works in rescue could believe this.

Everyone has a right to have a dog or cat at least in America under the current form a goverment we have now. Now if you want to change our form of government I wonder how many things people will have a right to own.

***NOT EVERYONE WHO WANTS A DOG(/CAT) DESERVES ONE***

Sera_J

Posted : 9/3/2007 2:17:33 AM

ORIGINAL: DPU
Breeders/Rescue Orgs screen for a reason. If you think that we need puppy mills, then you think everyone should have a dog or cat. I'm frankly shocked that anyone who works in rescue could believe this.

Somehow there has to be way of satisfying this demand and at the same time place the dog in a good home.

... I don't see how this statement is at odds.

I also didn't say you did a bad job at screening. My point is, why must you screen *IF* everyone should have a dog? You're saying we need to "satisfy the demand", (ie Puppymills) yet you are still screening potential homes for your fosters. THIS is what is not making sense to me.

Why not just give the dogs to everyone who wants one? ... wouldn't that assist with satisfying the demand?

OR

Why doesn't EVERYONE (pet stores, puppy mills... etc) screen because not everyone is a suitable home?

DPU

Posted : 9/3/2007 2:19:02 AM

ORIGINAL: timsdat

You talk about breeding standards. Have you ever read a breed standard. There is a lot of wiggle room and interpretation. It isn't a blueprint. Now why is that?

Yes, and for me the wiggle room and interpretation doesn't have much meaning to me. Health and general appearance is most important. I looked at a Great Dane from a breeder whose "call card" was to make the neck longer and a slightly smaller size. Now to me that is silly.

DPU

Posted : 9/3/2007 2:38:58 AM

ORIGINAL: Sera_J
OR

Why doesn't EVERYONE (pet stores, puppy mills... etc) screen because not everyone is a suitable home?

I should have also said diminish demand and what you stated above would be to control the supply side. But that would mean all breeders would have to work as one and have some assemblence of a common screening process.

mrv

Posted : 9/3/2007 7:52:59 AM

I would suggest Pet Stores (those that sell puppies and other animals) exist because they make money.

Some possible reasons they make money:
People are impulse buyers and dont really want to or do not attempt to do research.
People are influence by what they have seen (movies, demos etc) which give them the idea they want a specific breed.
People believe the advertizing hype of "hybrids" which are really cross bred dogs.
People do not know that the 1,000.00 price tag on a pet store puppy probably started with a 75.00 to 100.00 dollar payment to the "breeder" (maybe we should call them producers since they certainly arent breeders in my opinion).
People do not know that the housing methods used in pet stores foster the transimission of disease and often interfere significantly with house training issues.
People buy based on looks (what is cute).

ron2

Posted : 9/3/2007 8:10:34 AM

You have not kept up on this forum's discussion in this area.

Congratulations for taking over the thread.

I still stand by my statement. If a person is not able to go to a legitimate breeder, they can find what they want at a shelter. And it is not the breeder's fault that the dog winds up at the shelter. That would be similar to being angry with Ford because a person drove one of their cars and crashed into someone.

DPU

Posted : 9/3/2007 8:51:53 AM

ORIGINAL: ron2

Congratulations for taking over the thread.

I still stand by my statement.

I don't see the Jolly Roger. I believe when dishing out advise that the advise should include the consequences if taken. That is all I am saying, pretty straight forward.

janet_rose

Posted : 9/3/2007 9:10:32 AM

DPU
Wow! So Rwbeagles is a bad representative of a "responsible" breeder and I thought she was so well respect here so I took the word as gospal (sic). My bad.

Rwbeagles is a good, responsible, respected breeder. Anyone's words can be taken out of context and twisted especially when someone is trying hard to be argumentative.

spiritdogs

Posted : 9/3/2007 9:21:44 AM

ORIGINAL: pugtona500

I asked at our local Petland what happened to puppies that did not sell. As mentioned above as they get older they go "on sale". They said if the dog isn't sold by 20 weeks it goes back to the "breeder", which usually means the dealer. I have no clue what happens after that; possibly back into the breeding program?

Nope. I think you might well assume that the pups are mostly euthanized or dumped onto kill shelters. I guess some could end up breeding, but my guess is that the volume of puppies, plus the waiting time until they are ready to breed (mostly too young anyway), means that dealers will not want to feed, house, or vaccinate that many (just to satisfy the USDA bare minimum requirements). It's harsh reality at our doorstep...don't buy, "rescue" or otherwise do business with pet stores - don't even buy a toy for your rescue dog there!!!!

Ixas_girl

Posted : 9/3/2007 9:38:25 AM

[sm=violinplay1.gif]

LOL.

OK, I don't hear DPU "defending" or promoting puppy mills [sm=rofl.gif], I hear him analyzing the industry. He can be pro rescue, yet still push discussion about the function of puppy mills. As much as we don't like it, puppy mills obviously serve a purpose, or they'd cease to exist.

Rather than take up the easier task of simply complaining about puppy mills, I thought DPU was offering a way to talk about actually solving the problem. What's bad about that?

ottoluv

Posted : 9/3/2007 9:44:53 AM

As much as we don't like it, puppy mills obviously serve a purpose, or they'd cease to exist.

I think you are missing the point, no one is saying that they don't serve a purpose and I don't see any talk about how to solve the problem, just arguing for the sake of arguling. Just my [sm=2cents.gif]

meilani

Posted : 9/3/2007 9:47:15 AM

ORIGINAL: DPU

Rwbeagles made the quote that she does not supply her pups to the JQP nor would she ever.

Wow! What Gina said was totally taken out of context! What Gina has said is that she does not breed to supply the masses. She breeds when she wants something for herself, usually show potential, and makes pet quality available to approved public.

Liesje

Posted : 9/3/2007 9:59:11 AM

Rather than take up the easier task of simply complaining about puppy mills, I thought DPU was offering a way to talk about actually solving the problem. What's bad about that?

His "solution" seems to involve making false judgments about an entire group of people he has no experience with, that's what's bad about it.

DPU

Posted : 9/3/2007 10:02:58 AM

I respect Rwbeagles because of her commitment to high standards and procedures in breeding. I wish all breeders had these standards. But it is a mom and pop shop working independently as a nitch in the industry. Here is the thread and the quote I referenced.

[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=227063&mpage=5&key=dpu𷰮]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=227063&mpage=5&key=dpu𷰮[/link]

quote: DPU

If you take away the puppymills, Petshops, BYB, and responsible breeders, then what is left? Remember it is you as a reputable breeder that said you do not service the general public.

Rwbeagles response:

And I don't.

I'd assume that what'd happen is that the shelters would be a lot emptier....sounds good to me! Besides who is taking away responsible breeders?

I also expect the BYB would not go away either.

Heck at this point I'd be thrilled with petstores being required to sell only s/n pups! That alone would make people a lot less likely to buy there! They charge out the ying yang anyhow...more than enough to cover a pediatric s/n. Then you'd buy your pup but NOT take it home that day...or at all, until the surgery was done.

Educated a co-worker on pet stores