Educated a co-worker on pet stores

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

I would assume that it was because you didn't put in the time extensively researching the breed that you were interested in before purchasing.

After I decided that a Doberman was the right breed for me, I began researching the breed. I spent about 9 months learning as much as I could about the breed before I was ready to contact a breeder. I knew about all of the health problems commonly associated with the breed. I knew what to expect in the aspect of what their temperment should be. I knew that if I didn't begin training & socialization immediately, that I would likely have a dog that I could not control. I was fully aware of what I was getting myself into, before I ever contacted a breeder.

Wow!  9 months?  What goes on in that time?  Let me introduce you to the world of foster dog placement.  Usually from first contact to turn over, it is a two week process.  Probably about 5 hours conversation and the family meeting the dog on 2 separate occassions for a total of 2 hours.  When I get my next dog, I expect to spend this amount of time.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

No, it's a smear campaign against people who have devoted their entire lives (sometimes multiple generations) to developing breeding programs that improve the health, temperament, and working ability of their dogs.  It's ALL breeders' faults puppy mills exist.  Makes so much sense, I know...

 
More like hobbyist.  I don't know about that improvement bit.  I have had Great Danes for decades and there has not been any leaps in their life expectancy.  Nor am I aware of any improvement in the heart or cases of cancer.  Re-examine what you say.

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

I thought that I was the only person who felt that this was a smear campaign.  It's sad that someone can be so bitter about breeders who actually care what happens to their dogs.

I'm done [sm=beatdeadhorse.gif].  Oops, that might be considered animal abuse by some people.  Although, puppy mills aren't viewed as abusive at all.  Hmmmm, more strange logic there.......

 
Your tall tales always make me life.

Wow! 9 months? What goes on in that time?

hopefully, the adopting family has put that much time into researching care of their potential dog before the two weeks you get to know them.

even though we rescued amelia, we did several months worth of research, planning, and searching before the few weeks the rescuer spent getting to know us.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

Rwbeagles made the quote that she does not supply her pups to the JQP nor would she ever. Legitimate breeders have no competitors.

Wow, ONE person said that and now ALL breeders think JQP is unworthy and are totally unwilling to cooperate?  I'm sorry, that's way too much of a stretch even worth posting a reply about.  Gine is ONE person breeding say ONE litter a year (if that) of ONE breed of dog.  You're going to have to do a LOT better than this!

I am very skeptical of your response that the"responsible" breeder can meet the demand because of the elitist attitudes of breeders on this forum toward JQP and other types of breeders.

And we are very skeptical that any of your arguments have any crediblity since apparently they only stem from dealing with a few breeders on this forum alone.  How many responsible breeders have you actually met?  How many have you, self-proclaimed JQP, actually applied with?  You're the one that's always putting one's experience on a pedestal, and it seems like you are the only one here who has had such negative experiences with professional breeders, but it doesn't sound like you've actually met them, gone to visit their dogs, or applied with them.  See why we are skeptical?  Sorry you had some issues with members on this forum, but there's really no need to let those one or two people taint your opinion about tens of thousands of people you don't have experience with.

Wow!  So Rwbeagles is a bad representative of a "responsible" breeder and I thought she was so well respect here so I took the word as gospal.  My bad.

ORIGINAL: DPU
The fact is puppymills exist because they supply demand, a demand that the "responsible" breeder has written off by saying that those people should not have dogs. What I have been saying all the time is that breeders should organize as one professional group with the same breeding standards. Since the "responsible" breeder has the most knowledge and experience, they should lead this. But nooooo, they like their elitist and no competition position. They like bashing JQP for purchasing puppies they won't supply.

Aaah, I see what you're saying. So, for example, if there were such an organization, they could put out really large scale initiatives for the betterment of dog's lives. Like a voluntary moratorium on breeding until shelter populations fall to less than 25% of capacity, for example. I wonder how long that would take?

Wow!  9 months?  What goes on in that time?

 
Please re-read my post that you just quoted.  I gave you all of the information there.
 

  Let me introduce the world of foster dog placement. 

 
Davey, I foster as well.  I know how the process works.  Just because I don't feel the need to scream it from the rooftops, & cram it down everyone's throat, doesn't mean that I don't know how the process works.  I deal with "last chance" fosters, the type who I either rehab or opt to euthanize.  I've seen the process first hand.\

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

Davey, I foster as well.  I know how the process works.  Just because I don't feel the need to scream it from the rooftops, & cram it down everyone's throat, doesn't mean that I don't know how the process works.  I deal with "last chance" fosters, the type who I either rehab or opt to euthanize.  I've seen the process first hand.\

 
Mandyo, like I said I like your tall tales...now wasn't your Dobe a rescue and not a result of your 9 month research.  I am sure I am wrong but what was that story of an owner wanting to euth a Dobe at a vet clinic and you decided to home it.

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

Davey, I foster as well.  I know how the process works.  Just because I don't feel the need to scream it from the rooftops, & cram it down everyone's throat, doesn't mean that I don't know how the process works.  I deal with "last chance" fosters, the type who I either rehab or opt to euthanize.  I've seen the process first hand.\

Mandyo, like I said I like your tall tales...now wasn't your Dobe a rescue and not a result of your 9 month research.  I am sure I am wrong but what was that story of an owner wanting to euth a Dobe at a vet clinic and you decided to home it.

 
You are exactly correct, as I already stated in an earlier post on this thread.  You might want to go back & re-read, because I believe that you are missing some important stuff.[]  Bevo is indeed a rescue.  I was on a waiting list when he came in, & I decided that he was the dog for me.  I called the breeder who I was on the waiting list with, & informed her. (again, info already posted on this thread)
 
I like MandyO!!!  Thanks for the nickname![]

ORIGINAL: timsdat

This whole discussion looks like another breeder bash. 

 
No I am not against breeders but I am sure there are extremist as you described.  I am discussing the betterment of how breeders should operate as one with the same breeding standards.

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

Davey, I foster as well.  I know how the process works.  Just because I don't feel the need to scream it from the rooftops, & cram it down everyone's throat, doesn't mean that I don't know how the process works.  I deal with "last chance" fosters, the type who I either rehab or opt to euthanize.  I've seen the process first hand.\

Mandyo, like I said I like your tall tales...now wasn't your Dobe a rescue and not a result of your 9 month research.  I am sure I am wrong but what was that story of an owner wanting to euth a Dobe at a vet clinic and you decided to home it.

You are exactly correct, as I already stated in an earlier post on this thread.  You might want to go back & re-read, because I believe that you are missing some important stuff.[]  Bevo is indeed a rescue.  I was on a waiting list when he came in, & I decided that he was the dog for me.  I called the breeder who I was on the waiting list with, & informed her. (again, info already posted on this thread)

I like MandyO!!!  Thanks for the nickname![]

 
Yes, from your posts you remind me of Barry Manilow's sister.  Oh, BTW, taller is always better.  Thanks for upping the story.
 
You really should talk more of your fostering experience.  Who knows, you may inspire someone.

No I am not against breeders but I am sure there are extremist as you described. I am discussing the betterment of how breeders should operate as one with the same breeding standards.

 
You never would get everyone to agree on anything.   Many breeders are very passionate about their dogs.  They want to think that their methods are the best Most breeders I know that breed in any regularity will sell to the general public with screening but what usually happens is that people will go to a breeder and expect them to assemble one in the back room for them.  They don't understand the concept of a waiting list and breeding when the time is correct.  It's part of the instant gratification of this society and if they can't get one there then they turn to the source that has readily available inventory i.e. the pet store and guess what, the person goes away thinking the breeder is uppity because they didn't have a puppy available for them that instant. 
 
I see rescues bad mouthing each one another all time also for many of the same reasons. 
 
You talk about breeding standards.  Have you ever read a breed standard.  There is a lot of wiggle room and interpretation.  It isn't a blueprint.  Now why is that?
 
 

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe just because someone WANTS a dog doesn't mean they should have one?

When responsible breeders/Rescue organizations put people thru a test its because they want what's best for the dog. Which would leave one to believe if someone cannot get a dog via a reputable breeder or a rescue group maybe their intentions for the dog is less than stellar.

How many people who own a dog does the following (or bought it for this reason

-Leaves dogs in a car on a hot day.
-Leaves the dog in the back yard 24/7.
-Leave the dogs tied to a stake all day.
-Wants to breed dogs for money.
-Wants a dog because they saw one on TV.
.... I could go on all day.

These are examples of people who should NOT have a dog.

I just spoke to a friend who's trying to adopt a kitten. She picked one out at the shelter but it turned out someone had put the cat on 'hold'. So I suggested she go back the next day, as a lot of people do things like this, on impulse. Sure enough, two days later she went back and the cat was available. All I can say is thank God they didn't go to a pet store. ... this is probably one less cat to end up in a shelter.

I think if there was a MANDATORY 2 week wait for every sale of live animals, we'd weed out a lot of the people who buy a puppy/kitten cause it's cute and then turn it into the shelter 2 months later when it ate their sofa.

***NOT EVERYONE WHO WANTS A DOG(/CAT) DESERVES ONE***

Breeders/Rescue Orgs screen for a reason. If you think that we need puppy mills, then you think everyone should have a dog or cat. I'm frankly shocked that anyone who works in rescue could believe this.

***NOT EVERYONE WHO WANTS A DOG(/CAT) DESERVES ONE***

Breeders/Rescue Orgs screen for a reason. If you think that we need puppy mills, then you think everyone should have a dog or cat. I'm frankly shocked that anyone who works in rescue could believe this.

 
Everyone has a right to have a dog or cat at least in America under the current form a goverment we have now.  Now if you want to change our form of government I wonder how many things eople will have a right to own.
 

What choice does JQP have but to go the lesser 'responsible' breeders' to get their house pet. Demand is greater than these two groups can supply.

aka "It's not Todd and Jane's fault."  Which is bull pucky.  People want a quick buy and no questions.  They don't HAVE to go to less responsible breeders.  Nobody is putting a gun to their heads.  They simply don't want to be questioned.
 
With you always raising the out cry of "There's not enough homes!" this is very clearly not about supply and demand, but about "Just give it to me.  Don't ask, don't tell."
 
They have a choice.  It's called "Don't be so defensive and just fill out the questionnaire."  Simple, no?
 

What? Legitimate breeders have unwanted dogs? I thought they don't produce a puppy unless they have an adopter waiting. Or is that the 2nd tier Responsible Commercial Breeders?

Good attempt to talk breeders down, but there IS this thing that occurs called "Buyers backing out."  There is also "Buyers remorse" and "gut feeling".  The feeling that a breeder gets at the last moment (whether that is RIGHT when they come to pick up the pup, or weeks before) that tells them "These people should NOT have one of my puppies."
 
Puppies will ALWAYS be produced that aren't spoken for, or WERE spoken for and for some reason or another ended up not being purchased.  That's how it is.  That's how the cycle works.
 

But aren't the legitimate breeder basically a mom and pop shop.

More often than not. There are some large volume breeders that breed for show, are reputable, and have nice animals.
 

Afterall the breeder(s) on this forum stated they do not make their dogs available to JQP.

No, what breeders on this forum have stated is that they do not breed specifically for JQP.  That does not mean they are not available to regular joes, but the dogs are not being bred to specifically meet the "pet demand" of the public.
 

Sorry there is no proof anything I said has been misrepresented

Nor is there any that what you have said has been properly represented.
 

Legitimate breeders have no competitors

Yes, they do.  They're called puppy mills.
 

Looking at the situation from your personal level is not how the typical consumer operates. I wish all the puppy would do what you did but that is not going to happen when you mutiply by 10 million.

*Grabs her pointer stick and chalk* Hi!  I'm an educator!  I can help you learn how to properly find a companion animal!
 

You just don't get it that if you eliminate any of the types of puppy suppliers, some one has to fill that gap. You say there is no gap and that makes no sense to me.

Interesting stance for a rescuer, defending puppy mills.
 

Then why don't they. Why was it that I never heard of a "responsible" breeder before I came to this forum. When I purchases my many puppies of different breeds in my life all the suppliers whether they pet shops or byb represented their dogs the same as a "responsible" breeder.

I'm guessing you closed your ears and heard what you wanted to hear.

 

There would be a lot of screening and those consumer would get their dogs elsewhere thus creating another market.

As I stated earlier "Just give me this living, breathing creature, and don't ask anything of me.  Do not follow up on this animal, do not bother me with how training is going, leave us alone.  Give us our dog now."  That is the mentality many people have.  So no, most people who go to a reputable breeder are not JQP, because they are ok with having their privacy "invaded".  They are not JQP because they were willing to research.
 
It's not the fault of the breeder that Average Joe Blockhead is too lazy to get off his arse and research.
 

The fact is puppymills exist because they supply demand, a demand that the "responsible" breeder has written off by saying that those people should not have dogs.

A demand that responsible breeders are not willing to fill because it is not responsible to breed just to supply the people of a throw away society with an animal who may be part of the family until it isn't cute anymore.  Because where are the vast majority of the pups from the mills going to end up?  It ain't gonna be in front of the fire on their down filled doggy bed.  It's going to be the cold, dank confines of a shelter kennel, awaiting euthanasia.
 
Don't blame the responsible for the purchases of the ignorant.
 

What I have been saying all the time is that breeders should organize as one professional group with the same breeding standards.

Nobody has the same standards.  What I want out of my GSDs is not what somebody else wants out of theirs.  I will not sacrifice temperament and working ability for conformation ribbons.  Others will.  Depending on the bitch, I would breed her back to back, while others are vehemently opposed to it.
 

But nooooo, they like their elitist and no competition position. They like bashing JQP for purchasing puppies they won't supply.

Like many rescues, who won't give dogs to homes without a fence, or a dog to a person who has never owned the breed before, or who won't give a dog to a military officer, or, or, or.  Pot calling the kettle black.

Re-examine what you say.

Again, pot calling the kettle black.
 

No I am not against breeders but I am sure there are extremist as you described.

For someone who isn't against breeders, you sure do put them and their practices down quite frequently.