Educated a co-worker on pet stores

the 'ideal' is not available to them.

When JQP is not given a choice to get the ideal

OK, THIS is what I'm not understanding.  I have no clue what this means. 

What you call the "responsible" breeder would not make their dog available to me.  I would not qualify to get their dog.  And I would be screened before the puppy was availble so there is a demand for a puppy that is not met.  And as Amstaffy said they are no where near the size of the other types of breeders as you mentioned, puppymills, byb, commercial breeders.   So then I go to the next most responsible type, and that would be the responsible commercial breeder.  And I am sure there are a finite number of ups availble so there would also be screening and a demand for a dog that is not met.   Until I get the puppy that I want (the demand) I will keep going to the lesser responsible puppy supplier. 
 
This is simple economics of supply and demand and the consumer not seeing or not aware of the difference in suppliers.

What you call the "responsible" breeder would not make their dog available to me.

Why is that?  If I can get one I don't see why you can't....  They do applications and interviews to help get you the right puppy, not to turn people away b/c they don't think you are worthy or something like that.  Generally, if you make the deposit, they assume you have legitimate interest in the dog.  They have ways of controlling what they do not want done with the dogs (limited registration so people cannot breed, namely).

IMO, the cheapest and most responsible puppy suppliers have puppies that are the easiest to get!  The rescues and shelters!

ORIGINAL: talenak

Where do pet stores even have puppies and kittens anymore?  NONE of them around me do.  They just refuse to sell them.  They'll direct you to a shelter or tell you where/when you can adopt one from some rescue organization showing the dogs that need homes.      

 
Here the well known pet store chains (Pet-Co, PetSmart, etc.) do NOT sell puppies or kittens.  But you are quite likely to see a "no name" pet store selling them in some major malls.
 
Joyce

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_dogs_mom

Here the well known pet store chains (Pet-Co, PetSmart, etc.) do NOT sell puppies or kittens.  But you are quite likely to see a "no name" pet store selling them in some major malls.
 
Joyce

 
And do you why?  A business decision.  Petco and Petsmart invite rescues into their stores.  They both also house cats but the rescue groups do the care and cleaning.  I am told that when a dog or cat is adopted, the adopter will purchase from the store an average of $125 for cats and in the $300 for a dog.  Pretty smart decision since they only have to supply space and have no responsibility.  They stick to selling fish and birds.
 
BTW, the Petland in my area have stopped selling the large breed dogs. 

I asked at our local Petland what happened to puppies that did not sell.  As mentioned above as they get older they go "on sale".  They said if the dog isn't sold by 20 weeks it goes back to the "breeder", which usually means the dealer.  I have no clue what happens after that; possibly back into the breeding program?

I would say they are probably sold to labs or other research groups. My dog technically came from a "breeder" before he was a research dog - he was meant to be trained to be a prison guard dog or something else, I don't remember what they told me, but he failed whatever test it was and that's how he ended up as a research dog.

I have not set foot into a pet store that sells pups for about 10 years.  Before that I went to pet stores just to see the pups, and now, I just can't as I know where they come from.  I had known back then that something was not right when I saw tiny pups obviously under 6 weeks old, and big active pups in small display cases.  Most of these were in shopping malls in the northern midwest states. 
 
Petland in San Antonio sells puppies.  They advertise purebreds and the popular "designer" breeds.  I never shop there.  We all have to continue educating people.
 
It seems though that most of us do not really know what happens to pups not sold.  It sounds like it is up to the store.  Since they are geared for profit, in my opinion, the unsold pups probably do not have much of a chance, if any, of having a life.

It seems though that most of us do not really know what happens to pups not sold. It sounds like it is up to the store. Since they are geared for profit, in my opinion, the unsold pups probably do not have much of a chance, if any, of having a life.

 
Precisely.
 
The friend who gave us Shadow bought him in a pet store in Plano, Tx. And they didn't have any idea what they were doing. He was just a odd looking pup with pointed ears and glow in the dark eyes. His purchase price, as a mixed breed, was $200. The paperwork notes that they offer no guarantees of health or lineage on a mixed breed pup but that doesn't stop them from selling them.
 
I always tell co-workers and friends to either go to a legit breeder or a shelter or rescue. Stay away from puppy-selling pet stores and byb's that sell out of the back of their vehicle in whatever parking lot is handy. A legit breeder gets deposit money or even letters of intent before starting the breeding, which may take a while. You might wait most of a year before you get your dog. Or a shelter, where many of the dogs, some of them purebred, are just fine and are simply without a home, due to the failings of humans.
 
 
The animal shelter in Sherman, Tx. has one price for any dog, regardless of size or breed. $44. This covers the adoption, first shots, and spay or neuter at a supporting area vet. And I have seen purebreds there, including a Shiba Inu which is quite rare, at least for this part of the country.
 

ORIGINAL: ron2

I always tell co-workers and friends to either go to a legit breeder or a shelter or rescue. Stay away from puppy-selling pet stores and byb's that sell out of the back of their vehicle in whatever parking lot is handy. A legit breeder gets deposit money or even letters of intent before starting the breeding, which may take a while. You might wait most of a year before you get your dog. Or a shelter, where many of the dogs, some of them purebred, are just fine and are simply without a home, due to the failings of humans.

 
You have not kept up on this forum's discussion in this area.  And when all the dogs from legit breeders and shelters are exhausted, what choice does JQP have but to go the lesser 'responsible' breeders' to get their house pet.  Demand is greater than these two groups can supply.
 

Demand is greater than these two groups can supply.

Stats? Quotes?  Figures?  Citations?.....

You have not kept up on this forum's discussion in this area. And when all the dogs from legit breeders and shelters are exhausted, what choice does JQP have but to go the lesser 'responsible' breeders' to get their house pet. Demand is greater than these two groups can supply.

 
Since all the dogs from legitimate breeders & shelters have not yet been exhausted, nor will they ever be.  I believe that this statement is just propaganda.  It is not ok, nor will it ever be ok to purchase a puppy from a pet store, or other known mass producer of puppies. 

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS
Since all the dogs from legitimate breeders & shelters have not yet been exhausted, nor will they ever be. 

 
What?  Legitimate breeders have unwanted dogs?  I thought they don't produce a puppy unless they have an adopter waiting.  Or is that the 2nd tier Responsible Commercial Breeders?

Legitimate breeders have unwanted dogs? I thought they don't produce a puppy unless they have an adopter waiting.

 
Most legitimate breeders do have homes chosen for all of their pups before delivery.  With that being said, there are occasions where the litter size is expected to be 7 pups & the bitch has 10 pups.  That leaves 3 pups unspoken for.  What does the breeder do?  They surely don't sell the extras to a pet store!!!  These breeders spend the time to find a home that the puppy will thrive in.
 
Legitimate breeders also take dogs that they have bred back if, for some reason, the new owner can no longer keep the dog.  No matter how much screening you do, there will come a time that the breeder will have to take a pup/dog back.  Again, the breeder surely doesn't turn around & sell this returned pup to a pet store.
 
In my experience, when a good breeder doesn't have pups, or is not expecting a litter in the foreseeable futrue, they will always refer you to rescue.  I have NEVER been referred to a pet store by a good breeder.

In my experience, when a good breeder doesn't have pups, or is not expecting a litter in the foreseeable futrue, they will always refer you to rescue. I have NEVER been referred to a pet store by a good breeder.

Or another breeder!  When I was looking for a GSD I had something very specific in mind and found plenty of breeders willing to talk to me.  There was lots of dogs of all different ages and at various stages in training.  They also refered me on if they knew they would not have what I was looking for (certain structural traits).  Most said they take like three female and three male deposits per litter.  If there aren't that many pups, deposits are rolled into the next litter of the person's chosing.  They usually know fairly quickly b/c the bitches are x-rayed or whatever the vet does to see how many pups there are and if they all are doing ok.  If there are too many pups....well, most of them took too many deposits so it's not really an issue, plus the breeder usually keeps one or two dogs to add to their program.  They don't breed just to supply pets.

Between shelters/rescues and good breeders, I don't really see what need puppy mills fit.  Maybe it depends on where people live.  I personally do not know anyone who's bought a puppy from a pet store and if I knew a friend was considering it, I'd obviously step in.  I only know of 2 pet stores in the metro area that sell puppies and I don't know anyone that shops there (the reason is because they sell puppies).  The people I know are not into purebred dogs or having dogs for any purpose other than family companionship.  My experience shows no indication of the demand for puppies being so high that shelters and good breeders cannot keep up.  Quite the contrary!