can someone resolve this debate i am having with my partner

lol, I should have started a seperate thread.  I'm really talking in general.  Not about the OP or "designer" dogs. 

I keep thinking other people are speaking generally instead of specifically, because that's what I'm doing.  It's causing miscommunication.

i think they do that already... calling it a King Doberman....

I so want one.  No, no I don't.  I suddenly rememberd my friends old Dane.  The slobber, the gas, yeah.  I changed my mind.

I've also seen a "Dutch Malinois".  Don't know much about it b/c I'd never heard of it until I went to a SchH demo at a dog show.  They started with Belgians of course but apparently wanted a bigger dog so they crossed in some larger breeds like Great Dane and some mastiff-type breeds and got this:



Again, I hadn't heard of it before or since, but the guy that ran the club giving the demo said there were more of them in Europe and they were working on a standard and breed clubs, etc.  Again, I'd have to hear more about the purpose for this dog before deciding whether these people had valid motives or were whack.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

But anyone with the knowledge and commitement could take dogs and start a breeding program to eventually create a new "pedigree" that isn't anything you could buy right now.

Agreed, but I don't think that this is the OP's goal.  I think that any responsible breeding starts with a goal, an ideal, not a dog or two that someone thinks might be good for breeding.  The only people who have any business breeding are people that know what they want and actually have the knowledge of genetics to make good guesses on whether or not it will be possible and know how to select for the traits they are looking to bring out.  If two different breeds are what is needed to meet the goal, OK, but I'm not so sure that's what we have here...

i have a hypothetical question.. and nothing more than that...

why do people want to "create" a new breed anyway? from what i have learned from the hunting dog forum i'm a member of is that a first cross is the best of both worlds a lot of times. very few of these people will cross a saluki/grey with another saluki/grey. from what i have seen is if they cross a saluki/grey at all its back to either a saluki OR a grey.... when they do that its to expound on one thing or another. though many of these dogs are first crosses, which seems to be preferred.
they dont set out to create the "Lurcher" type or breed.. there's no need as there are already many fine sight hounds, but some are lacking in a few areas (such as crossing a grey with a bully type for fox hunting)

but to start the work and head aches and heart breaks of making a whole new breed...? why? you cant get much better than whats already out there. you can only maintain and try to improve the health and quality...
now if someone wants to invent a breed to do my taxes.... i'm all for it! but do we need another scenting or herding breed?

I think that dog is beautiful. 

I really like rott/doberman mixes.  The ones I've met with the doberman height and the rottie strength have all just been stunningly beautiful, intelligent, rather strong willed and in need of a very alpha owner, and so loyal.  Awesome, Awesome, Awesome dogs.

I would probably wet myself in glee if I found one waiting for adoption.  If someone pedigreed something like that just because they liked how they looked would you consider it whack?  It might be, I really don't know.  I would never get one of each and make puppies, just because I couldn't keep them all.  Otherwise, if I could breed em and keep em all, I might be in danger of trying it.  I would definitely never ever call myself a responsible breeder.  Because I wouldn't have a damn clue what I was doing.  But I just love the dogs I've met that are that mix.

ORIGINAL: DumDog
why do people want to "create" a new breed anyway?

Maybe they just really like two breeds and think the end result would make a fantastic dog.  The only purpose could be a great, well-rounded companion?  I don't know.  I'm just guessing.

my brother had a rotti/dobie pup when we were kids. (incidentally that was my first experience with a docked tail dog - these pups were done late i think and Peace - the puppy - kept chewing on his tail and opening it up..yuck.. but at least he still had his ears!!

i like dobies because they;re slick, streamlined, and look like they could outrun and tackle the wind..
i like rotties because they have similar qualities to American Bulldogs. they're thick, stout, and very in tune with their family.

but when you mix the two... i just see a medium build dog with not much in the way of muscle defintion. Dobies are mellow (mine always were) and rotties are bit more intense and dominant.. i would be concerned which attitude would come out in the pup.
and.. lol i have to do it.. to get back on topic.... with crossing a jack to a cocker... what the heck are you getting in a puppy?!?!
i think cockers are cute(i like english better though) but i cant imagine what sort of character a cockerjack would be!
they're like night and day to me.. in looks as well as attitude..... thats like crossing a chihuahua with a great dane... whyyyyyy would you want to do that??? just to see what they would look like?

Maybe they just really like two breeds and think the end result would make a fantastic dog.

See, that's what worries me.  They'd be breeding based on what they already have, not what genetics can prove they will get.  This would make me uncomfortable until I knew more about why they "really liked" the two breeds.  To me it's like when people want to breed their dog b/c they love it and want a new one just like it in case it dies.  I'd rather have people breeding based on the intended result being even better than both of the parents, not b/c they like one or both parents and think the babies would be cool. 

That's why I wonder about the Dutch Malinois.  As far as drive, power, speed, smarts...it doesn't GET better than a Malinois!  Why did they want them bigger? 

but when you mix the two... i just see a medium build dog with not much in the way of muscle defintion. Dobies are mellow (mine always were) and rotties are bit more intense and dominant.. i would be concerned which attitude would come out in the pup.

OK, I gotta find a picture of Thor.  Yeah, aptly named. 

Tall as a Doberman, muscled like a Rot.  There was beautiful muscle definition.  He was very mellow, but he pretty much ignored commands.  He never had ANY kind of training though and was left really unsupervised running loose in Texas.  I swear I've never seen a more gorgeous dog in my life.  But he did not take commands unless he wanted to. 

My dog Nara was his pup, but her ma was a smaller sized mutt.  She was beautiful shaped and colored like her dad, but significantly smaller.  But still a touch taller than a rottweiler. 

I think my son got ahold of the picture I had of Thor.  But if I find it, I'll post it.  You'll eat your words and fly to texas to dognap him for yourself.  He's just that awesome. 

The others I've met are *almost* as awesome, but all great dogs.  They all listen better than Thor did.  None of htem were small.  But I have no idea about their littermates as I only ever ran in to adult dogs to begin with.  (not counting Thor's pups)

Edit to Add: ohohohoh, the neighbors new Doberman rescue I mentioned earlier, the vet took one look at him and said he had rott in him too.  He and my Methios were out playing for a couple hours today.  I'll get a picture of HIM tomorrow.  HIS name is Moose.  Again, aptly named.  He has his tail and ears too. 

thats the thing though, Thor was a one of a kind. one of my BEST dogs ever in the whole wide world was a Dobie/mutt. i knew both parents. i have a picture of him but i have no freakin clue about this new scanner we have.... grr..
but Darby(as i named him after Brig. General William Orlando Darby from WWII) was a one of a kind dog. he was sable like a german shepherd but he was built like a purebred dobie. i also owned his brother Farron(after Farron Young, the pups were born the day Farron Young died) Farron had dobie markings but he was black and silver and as opposed to black and tan. that dog was dumber than a box of rocks! his only use was to eat grass hoppers out of the vegetable garden. any time i went out to the garden he would follow along and pluck the little pests off the leaves and eat them!
Darby on the other hand was my shadow. i dont know if i completely buy the whole thing about their hearing being compromised by the ear flap. the reason i say that was because one day i was outside painting the house and had the radio blaring loud and Darby is snoozing near by. next thing i know Darby is on red alert growling and barking. i turn around and the neighbour is sneaking up on me!! no he wasnt up to no good, but he was a joker.... Darby managed to hear him over the racket of the Who singing Magic Bus lol his ears werent cropped either []

Thor ate rocks for fun.  lol  He'd lay on me, I was 110 lbs at the time and could not get out from under him for the life of me, and chew on rocks... lol

Yes, he was a one of a kind.  He's probably gone by now, it's been YEARS.  But gosh.  He's engraved in my memory as the perfect dog.  *dreamy sigh* lol

That's why I would never try to get someone to cross them so I could take a puppy.  I don't know what I'm doing.  But you know what my eyes area always peeled for at the shelter?? lol  I bet you do!

ugh... i know what you mean.. when i look at petfinder i'm looking for two things... even though it would be a huge disagreement with the man...
i want Darby back and i want Quila back ... Quila (short for Tequila) was my chow/shepherd/husky.... solid orange and a real hell hound.
i know i'll never find them again and if i did... i'd have to get clever on how to let them stay. my husband doesnt like chows OR dobermans.... but i managed to sell him on the idea of owning a bulldog... he hated those before and now he brags shamelessly about Kaydee....

Good Morning.  Does anyone remember the original topic here? []

there was a topic???

i was advised by my vet that jrt cross acs is 1 of the best mixes health wise all pups

 
oh. so this dog was bred with a jrt on purpose ??  [&:] i thought it was an accident.

Dumdog

he seemed to think that two sperm could implant one egg, thus making twins..

Multiple sperm do not create twins.  Twins occur when there are multiple eggs and/or an egg that divides. 
 
Egg division (multiple births) usually occurs after fertilization, but sometimes before fertilization and without cell division (two eggs in one egg sack).  In the latter case each egg could be fertilized by a different sperm.
 
If two sperm fertilize a single egg and the egg survives, all kinds of strange things can happen.  There is just too much DNA.  If the egg divides at this point all the DNA is duplicated.  The "identical" twins can be very different because each egg must eliminate some of the DNA.
 
One egg fertilized by two male sperm (Y1 and Y2) can result in a male with Y1 chromosomes in the blood stream and Y2 chromosomes in the sperm.  One egg fertilized by two female sperm (X1 and X2) can result in a female with X1 chromosomes in the blood stream and X2 chromosomes in the eggs.  This type of individual can actually be accused of not being the parent of their own children.
 
If one egg is fertilized by one male sperm and one female sperm, things really get strange.  Some of the person's cells will be male and some will be female.  Depending on the percentages the person's reproductive organs can be male, female, or some combination.  The person's appearance may or may not match the genitalia.
 
I once watched an interviewer on TV talking to a woman (uterus, ovaries) who looked like a middle-aged man complete with a receding hairline.  She dressed in men's clothes because otherwise she looked like a man in drag.  She used men's restrooms because otherwise she got nasty looks and cops were called.