can someone resolve this debate i am having with my partner

my cousin seems to believe this. she says it includes people as well [8|]
um.... unless you get genetic tests done (on people that is) how do you know?
as for dogs.... i'm sure their sperm is like human sperm. it only lives for a few days(seven or so for people) then dies if it doesnt implant inside an egg.

i am not even sure how you would begin researching this subject. asking a vet would probably help..... but i'm not sure if vets study this... unless they are also breeders....

Oh for goodness sakes.
 
I am a white woman.  For sake of contrast I'll use a black man.  If I sleep with a black man do I suddenly because "less white"?  Does my skin get darker, my hair curlier, and am I more prone to genetic issues that black folks have, such as sickle cell?  Does MY blood change?  My own DNA?  Absolutely not.  Now my children,produced of such a union, yes, they would be more vulnerable to the dads AND my genetic weaknesses.
 
The same is true of purebred dogs.  If you breed two purebreds of DIFFERENT breeds, you still don't have a purebred....but momma dog doesn't start howling at the moon for example, if papa is beagle.  The pups might tho.  Any later litters of pups, produced by a mating between a purebred cocker and another purebred cocker (or whatever breed you want to insert so long as BOTH are pure and the same breed) will roduce purebred pups. 
 
Where this silliness came from that once a purebred has mated with a dog of another breed she is no longer pure, heaven only knows.  But, it's nonsense.
 
That does not, however, mean that this particular bitch should be bred again.  She should not.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Oh for goodness sakes.

I am a white woman.  For sake of contrast I'll use a black man.  If I sleep with a black man do I suddenly because "less white"?  Does my skin get darker, my hair curlier, and am I more prone to genetic issues that black folks have, such as sickle cell?  Does MY blood change?  My own DNA?  Absolutely not. 

I don't believe you..






*giggle*  I swear I'm just kidding.

ORIGINAL: talenak

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Oh for goodness sakes.

I am a white woman.  For sake of contrast I'll use a black man.  If I sleep with a black man do I suddenly because "less white"?  Does my skin get darker, my hair curlier, and am I more prone to genetic issues that black folks have, such as sickle cell?  Does MY blood change?  My own DNA?  Absolutely not. 

I don't believe you..






*giggle*  I swear I'm just kidding.

lol that raised even my eyebrows until i scrolled down!!
i was about to reply lol sheesh!

Back in the ice age when I was in high school, I delivered newspapers to stores for the stores to sell.  There was a beautiful female sable GSD, and she had around 10 pups.  The pups were free to a good home, because although they had her mated with a purebred GSD, the neighbor's Huskey also caught her.  I was really lucky, both the female and male GSD were great working lines, had all sorts of letters after their names, etc, and because of the huskey, they were giving the pups away.  I got a pure one, he was the best temperment, disposition, and etc, of any dog I have ever owned.  They, said they were responsible breeders, and it just was that someone taking care of their kennel, while they were away, wasn't responsible, ergo, the huskey incident.  I have always loved GSDs and still do, but have never had such a great dog!
Moral, it is the sperm, even if 2 dogs do the deed, the sperm does not mix and create a new breed.  Some in the litter you could actually see the huskey in them!

talenak

What makes a dog a "pedigree"? 

A dog is a purebred when enough genetic work and breeding has been done that two dogs of this breed will breed "true".  This means that two dogs of the same breed will always have puppies that look like the parents - none will look like anything else unless there is a birth defect. 

talenak

AND why is it so frowned upon to cross breed? 

We have so many cross breeds that they are dying in shelters by the thousands.  Even purebreds should only be bred for the continuation and betterment of the breed because there are plenty of them in shelters, too.

I am still wondering why the poor female has to keep having litters. Best to spay.

ORIGINAL: rexandbaby

Moral, it is the sperm, even if 2 dogs do the deed, the sperm does not mix and create a new breed.  Some in the litter you could actually see the huskey in them!

that reminds me of a long heated debate i had with my husband - on the subject of twins in people - he seemed to think that two sperm could implant one egg, thus making twins.. [8|] i dont think i have managed to convince him YET that he is wrong lol
he does agree that two male dogs, or cats can impregnate one female and you can end up with mutts AND purebreds.
but i havent heard him say that they will implant in the same egg with animals... maybe i should call him on that lol

A dog is a purebred when enough genetic work and breeding has been done that two dogs of this breed will breed "true".  This means that two dogs of the same breed will always have puppies that look like the parents - none will look like anything else unless there is a birth defect.

So, unless cross breeding the dog makes it so that future breeding of 2 purebred animals throw out puppies that do not look like the parents, it's not actually possible to "ruin" a pedigree by crossbreeding, whether it was intentional, or a dogsitter not paying attention to the husky.
 

We have so many cross breeds that they are dying in shelters by the thousands.  Even purebreds should only be bred for the continuation and betterment of the breed because there are plenty of them in shelters, too.

That, I will never argue with.  Personally, I would never, ever shell out the dough for a purebred dog from a breeder.  Not when there are so many fantastic dogs on death row in a shelter. 

What I was wondering though, is why some people are so condescending of the dogs produced from cross breeding, like it makes inferior dogs.  Someone cares so much about this breed, that cross breeding the breed is an insult.  That's what I was driving at.  I just want to know why they don't think this breed is actually an insult to the dogs that were crossed to make it?  Does that make sense?

I don't know the answer, but maybe it has nothing to do with actual genetics and more to do with responsible breeding?  Responsible breeders seek to maintain the health, temperament, and working abilities of their breed.  A responsible breeder wouldn't crossbreed.  A responsible breeder wouldn't stud their dog to a female that had been used in a cross breeding.  I doubt kennel clubs would look to keenly breeders crossbreeding, and maybe that's why the dog can no longer be used in "official" pedigrees.  Again, I dunno, that's just my guess and if I made all the rules, that's how it would be.  Crossbreeding doesn't ruin the bitch at all, but it ruins the credibility of that breeder and whatever lines they were working on.  I don't know why anyone would want that in their dog's pedigree anyway.

redlegos

She was a bit scared of people because before my dad's friend had took her in, she was abused because she mated with another breed of dog and wasn't able to have pedigree pups anymore.

Unless a *** is
(1)  dog aggressive and has to be tied to a rape stand for breeding or
(2)  forced into a pen with a male she is afraid of,
there is no reason for a female in heat to associate a tie with people.  Just putting a female in heat in a pen with an intact male and letting nature run its course does not produce a female that is scared of people.
 
Dogs enjoy normal breeding as much as people do.  Just ask any breeder who didn't realize that dogs could breed through chain link fences and crate doors.  Ask any owner whose tiny intact male managed to breed with a very large female in heat. 
 
Some female animals mate and store sperm for future use.  People and dogs are not among that group of animals, so their sperm either gets used or it dies within a couple of days. 
 
Dead sperm has absolutely no effect on future breeding.  If components of dead sperm were absorbed and used by either eggs or live sperm, the amount of genetic material in animals would just keep growing.  That does not happen!

that reminds me of a long heated debate i had with my husband - on the subject of twins in people - he seemed to think that two sperm could implant one egg, thus making twins..

 
TOTALLY off topic - but it actually can happen - but the embryo usually dies.  Its definitely not the typical fraternal or identical twinning that usually occurs 
[linkhttp://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1603799,00.html]http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1603799,00.html[/link]
 

ORIGINAL: JoAnnDe

that reminds me of a long heated debate i had with my husband - on the subject of twins in people - he seemed to think that two sperm could implant one egg, thus making twins..

TOTALLY off topic - but it actually can happen - but the embryo usually dies.  Its definitely not the typical fraternal or identical twinning that usually occurs 
[linkhttp://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1603799,00.html]http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1603799,00.html[/link]

you're NOT helping matters [sm=no%20no%20smiley.gif] let us never speak of this again......

lol now i'm going to have to clean my temporary files and history so he wont see he's right after all and start bragging about it..... i wouldnt be able to live with him!

ORIGINAL: Liesje

I don't know the answer, but maybe it has nothing to do with actual genetics and more to do with responsible breeding?  Responsible breeders seek to maintain the health, temperament, and working abilities of their breed.  A responsible breeder wouldn't crossbreed.  A responsible breeder wouldn't stud their dog to a female that had been used in a cross breeding.  I doubt kennel clubs would look to keenly breeders crossbreeding, and maybe that's why the dog can no longer be used in "official" pedigrees.  Again, I dunno, that's just my guess and if I made all the rules, that's how it would be.  Crossbreeding doesn't ruin the bitch at all, but it ruins the credibility of that breeder and whatever lines they were working on.  I don't know why anyone would want that in their dog's pedigree anyway.

So basically, you don't care if the cross makes a BETTER dog.

You just want the same dog.  Period.  For better or worse.  No NEW breeds regardless of their usefulness or traits?

And according to you, anyone who wants a different dog, is irresponsible?  No matter how much effort they put in to health, care, and screening to do whatever possible to produce the specific dog they want, without any health or character drawbacks.  It's irresponsible, because it's a crossbreed?

So what do you think of the crossbreeding that had to be done with the ancestors that created the same German Shepard in your picture?  Was that also irresponsible?  Or is it only irresponsible to do it NOW?  No improvement possible?  Even if it's being done to bring in new DNA to breed out bad things, like persistent, breed specific, health problems? 

What is the WHY behind your statements?  Why wouldn't a responsible breeder crossbreed?  Why wouldn't a responsible breeder use a pedigree bitch with excellent parents and health perfect for breeding with his pedigree stud because she'd been crossbred?  Why?  And is this just your opinion?  Or is there a FACT somewhere that says it's not responsible?  (not counting JRose's statement about mixed dogs in shelters).  But a nice solid, it's bad because this irrefuteable, nonopinion, drawback that means there is no possibility that the mixed pups will be good dogs and the bitch who bore them was now garbage for the rest of her life.  Why?

Unless a bitch is
(1)  dog aggressive and has to be tied to a rape stand for breeding or

I don't think I could ever use ANYTHING referred to as a "rape" anything for anything to do with breeding.  It just made me naseaus....  lol 

good points. but its two different worlds. the show dog world and the working dog world.
they're vastly different.
working dogs are almost always some sort of outcross or first cross pups. the dogmen i know that have sight hounds, terriers, and catch dogs do first crosses all the time. they want a first cross Grey/Bulldog to increase the gameness and toughness so the dog can run through a briar patch and not come out the other side looking like a sniveling pin cushion(it was told to me that way, those arent my own words)

all of our breeds came from cross breeding. but we're not making anything better. we're maintaining. and thats ALL.
think about the phrase "betterment of the breed" ... whats that supposed to mean? how much better CAN they get? HOW can you make them better by keeping the gene pool as deep as a parking lot puddle?

its not a challenge, my questions, but simply a question.
yes you run the risk of crossing two breeds with the same problem and getting puts with that problem... but thats why you do health tests. if both parents check out ok, and one has the hip dysplaysia  gene but the other dog has no history of having hip problems in the entire breed but its still a herding/working breed similar to the other.... wouldnt you WANT to cross that?
wouldnt THAT be making the breed better?