Somebody Smack Me

    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS

    She has a name! 

    Since one of our "family" members crossed the bridge yesterday, & I gained a new family member, I thought that it would be nice to name after Cherokee.  With Chelsea's permission, her name is now Cherokee, or Cher for short.  She's definitely got the rock star attitude of Cher, so it's pretty fitting.

     

    Wow, I feel like I've been living under a rock. I'd missed the thread about both Cher and Cherokee. Amanda - I just want to add to what everyone else has said. You are truly an angel to save this poor girl. I hope the blessings are returned tenfold as she gets better.

    • Gold Top Dog

    AgileGSD
    For a large breed dog, this puppy is likely no where close to coming in season and she has probably been way over vax'd already. It's great that you found it worked well but when I have seen shelters doing this to puppies with demodex it almost always makes them much, much worse. If she was 8 or 9 months old, I can see the concern that she will be coming in season soon but since she's still a baby, I'd try to get it under control fist.

    You're entitled to your opinon, as always but in honesty, I've many years of experience here with demodex  and although surgery of *any* kind will undoubtedly trigger more demodex (as will ANY trigger event) it will work very well if it is simply done at the same time as everything else because it prevents the ongoing sexual maturation.  If done as a separate step it can trigger some outbreak, but no more than any other trigger event, and it **does** help bring a far earlier resolution because it removes sexual maturation as a 'trigger'.

    AgileGSD
    isn't widely known in the US is Wobenzym or an equivalent such as Flavenzym

    I've taken Wobenzym myself -- it's a good enzyme but I'd have to research it way more before using it on a dog.  It helped some but the side effects I personally experienced were far too severe to continue it.  Now that's *me* (and I can unfortunately be Queen of the Side Effects that no one else experience) -- but again, I'd have to check it out, and it would be definitely worth checking on.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll check out the article when I get home.

    AgileGSD
     There is connection between demodex and yeast - the mites feed on yeast. For an overgrowth of mites, it seems there has to be too much yeast as well. This website has info on an anti-yeast diet: http://www.purelypets.com/articles/demodex.htm

     

    Unfortunately that Purely Pets article has a *lot* of serious misinformation in it and it twists words and statements to its own ends.  Demodex mites aren't genetic.  But the specific way the immune system responds (and fails to respond) to demodex IS genetic.  It is very like an allergy in many, many ways.  But it's wrong -- demodex mites eat skin oil -- not sugar or yeast.  But yeast is often a by-product of demodex (because it creates heat and moisture which is, in turn, fertile ground for yeast).  Unfortunately the conclusion they come to in the article is that it's ok to breed a dog with demodex as long as it's over a year old.  WRONG WRONG WRONG.  So wrong I could weep. 

    Now-- I want to swiftly add that a grain-free diet IS a big help, simply because it's a healthy diet and it does help ward off the yeast that can plague a demodex dog.  But  the mites don't eat yeast.  Nor is yeast *always* a byproduct -- but simply removing yeast doesn't resolve the problem.  It helps, but it's not a resolution.

    The big clue, unfortunately, is that the purely pets article is simply self-serving.  It's full of suggestions that ____ helps and guess what they sell?  Yep.  Over and over thru that article are things they recommend that they sell and profit from. 

    Honestly I make it a practice to view VERY dimly any internet source that in the process of "education" sells something.  It's pretty much always twisted in the purpose of selling something. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS

    She has a name! 

    Since one of our "family" members crossed the bridge yesterday, & I gained a new family member, I thought that it would be nice to name after Cherokee.  With Chelsea's permission, her name is now Cherokee, or Cher for short.  She's definitely got the rock star attitude of Cher, so it's pretty fitting.

     

    Awwwwwww. *sniffle*

    • Gold Top Dog

    janobonano

    BEVOLASVEGAS

    She has a name! 

    Since one of our "family" members crossed the bridge yesterday, & I gained a new family member, I thought that it would be nice to name after Cherokee.  With Chelsea's permission, her name is now Cherokee, or Cher for short.  She's definitely got the rock star attitude of Cher, so it's pretty fitting.

     

    Awwwwwww. *sniffle*

    What a wonderful tribute to Cherokee!  Cher we are all pulling for you! 

    We all watched Tink, bless her heart, who was so bad off.  She is now such a wonderful healthy well rounded Pug with FAIREEE DUST! 

    Tink please see if you can blow some dust toward "Cher"! 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Cherokee, welcome to the good life, little one, 

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs

    AgileGSD
    For a large breed dog, this puppy is likely no where close to coming in season and she has probably been way over vax'd already. It's great that you found it worked well but when I have seen shelters doing this to puppies with demodex it almost always makes them much, much worse. If she was 8 or 9 months old, I can see the concern that she will be coming in season soon but since she's still a baby, I'd try to get it under control fist.

    You're entitled to your opinon, as always but in honesty, I've many years of experience here with demodex  and although surgery of *any* kind will undoubtedly trigger more demodex (as will ANY trigger event) it will work very well if it is simply done at the same time as everything else because it prevents the ongoing sexual maturation.  If done as a separate step it can trigger some outbreak, but no more than any other trigger event, and it **does** help bring a far earlier resolution because it removes sexual maturation as a 'trigger'.

     Like I said, I personally would try to resolve it first - she is young enough that she won't be coming in season any time soon. The other issue in my mind is that Dobergirls are extremely prone to leaking and early spaying greatly increases the risk of leaking, even in breeds not as prone to it.

    calliecritturs

    I've taken Wobenzym myself -- it's a good enzyme but I'd have to research it way more before using it on a dog.  It helped some but the side effects I personally experienced were far too severe to continue it.  Now that's *me* (and I can unfortunately be Queen of the Side Effects that no one else experience) -- but again, I'd have to check it out, and it would be definitely worth checking on.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll check out the article when I get home.

      The article talks about side effects being seen in a few cases were dogs who were on super high doses. I have used it on my Pannus dogs, my old dog and myself without an issue. I don't use super high doses though. The biggest problem with using it in dogs IME is that it shouldn't used with any food or coating of any sort, because of the way it is supposed to be absorbed. Some dogs seems to like the taste of it (it's a bit fruity but weird...) but for others, you have to just make them take it or risk it being less effective due to coating it.

    calliecritturs
    Unfortunately the conclusion they come to in the article is that it's ok to breed a dog with demodex as long as it's over a year old.  WRONG WRONG WRONG.  So wrong I could weep. 

    Now-- I want to swiftly add that a grain-free diet IS a big help, simply because it's a healthy diet and it does help ward off the yeast that can plague a demodex dog.  But  the mites don't eat yeast.  Nor is yeast *always* a byproduct -- but simply removing yeast doesn't resolve the problem.  It helps, but it's not a resolution.

      We'll have to agree to disagree, as we have discussed the breeding issue before with demodex. It is an issue with an immature immune system, often a super overstressed immature immune system. Puppies are much more prone to a lot of things due to their immature immune systems, including Parvo. Having a spot of demodex as a young puppy doesn't mean the dog is "defective", it just means it's immune system at that time is weakened. I wouldn't rule out a dog for breeding based on it having a spot of demodex as a puppy that went away on it's own. I would rule out a dog for breeding who had long standing generalized demodex or who has reoccurring demodex into adulthood, as IMO that indicates a more serious issue.

     I mostly posted the Purely Pets article for the diet info. It is extremely hard to find any info on the internet that isn't put out by someone trying to sell you something or sway you a certain way. It doesn't mean the info is not useful at all. Just that you need to take into consideration why they may be suggesting so much Brand X use ;) I think the Great Dane Lady for example has some interesting and at times, useful info but she certainly is trying to sell her own products too.

    Personally I feed raw and feel that would be best but I figure on this forum of more educated owners, people who are able and interested in raw feeding are probably already doing it. For non-raw feeders, a homemade diet might be more doable. Or a grain free kibble.

    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog

     Mod speaking

    I know everyone means well but let's start a thread in health about demodex and not hijack this one which is about how lucky Cherokee aka Cher is to have been grabbed up by a knowledgeable, loving owner in Amanda

    thanks!

    • Gold Top Dog

    That's a great idea Karen. 

     I just wanted to say that I think Cherokee will always have her "angel"  Cherokee looking out for her and watching her from that meadow at the Bridge.  My heart is overflowing thinking about the two Cherokees and the two women, Amanda and Chelsea, who both epitomize what loving a dog should be all about. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    I just keep thinking about this girl. How's she doing today?
    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS

     

    Oh my dog... that picture is just so sad. Thank you so much for saving her. I really hate people... how can anyone just give up their puppy up for a stupid reason like that...  She is one lucky pup to end up with you. I cant wait to see what she looks like when shes healed.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Laurelin_429
    I just keep thinking about this girl. How's she doing today?

    She's doing really well today. The swelling around her eyes has subsided some, & you can actually see that she has eyes now! Her skin is already looking starting to look better. Her front legs are bowing worse today, but I expected that to happen, so it's not to surprising. We are already doing stretching exercises with her, & we fixed a ramp in the garage for her to walk up to help strengthen all of the support structures in her legs.

    When I took her yesterday, I was expecting to be taking on not only her health issues, but also an unsocialized puppy who was going to be a huge project on all fronts. That's not the case at all. It takes a LOT to shake her. Today, she rode with me to the bank. The car ride didn't bother her at all. (She was asleep before we pulled out of the driveway.) She was interested in the "talking box" at the bank, but she wasn't fearful at all. She hung out with me while I rang the bell for the Salvation Army this afternoon with no issues other than wanting to chew on my bell.

    Today's bath was much easier than yesterday's. She was content to stand in the tub while I worked on loosening more of the scabs, scale, & debris from her coat. She does try to sneak in kisses while I'm leaned over her, but I can live with that.

    She's very confident in the house. She met the cat, & they came to a mutual agreement that they will both be happier if they just pretend like the other isn't there. She has explored the stairs. (Read, she tripped up & down the stairs, only to hop up & try again.) She learned that couch doesn't really move, even if she hits it head on. She has found that the throw blankets on the couches are much softer & more comfy than the exact same blanket that is in her crate. She's also figured out that being wrapped in a blanket & snuggled is, next to food, the greatest thing in the world.

    I just keep telling myself "I can't fall in love with this dog." Somebody else may have to remind me of that......frequently. Tongue Tied

    • Gold Top Dog

     She sounds like a nice girl and it's great that she is so sound! Good luck with not keeping her ;)

    • Gold Top Dog

     Pfft....as soon as she's looking good and you post a pic, I'm adding her to Bevo's crew...so you go right ahead and fall in love!

    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS

    She has a name! 

    Since one of our "family" members crossed the bridge yesterday, & I gained a new family member, I thought that it would be nice to name after Cherokee.  With Chelsea's permission, her name is now Cherokee, or Cher for short.  She's definitely got the rock star attitude of Cher, so it's pretty fitting.

     

    Awww, what a great name! Smile

    BTW, did I miss something (easily could have)....I hope none of your dogs passed......??

    • Gold Top Dog

     Amanda, i love you! You have such a big heart.

    She's a very cute girl even though she looks horrible. i know you'll have her lookin' good very soon.