Dogs and swimming

 Van Morrison that is a great idea re the harness I may try the life vest because that has a clip and fits like a harness - I totally want to keep him swimming and I realize that I will have to train some new commands   This dog has asked more of me than I ever expected - if I can ever get him sorted I should become a dog trainer

JackieG

Does he like to retrieve?

JackieG

You might be able to get Bugsy an ILP registration from AKC. :)  I would love to see Bugsy run a Hunt Test! LOL

Not sure what ILP or a Hunt Test is but hunting is what this boy wants more than anything

I think you have a lot of good advise here. I just wanted to send you a big hug, I'm sure that was a very scary moment. The life jacket and lead, I think will help a lot.

ILP stands for Indefinite Listing Privelege and I was being sarcastic (but not in a mean way) about him getting this from AKC.  This is for dogs that are purebred but are not registered for whatever reason with the AKC.  This allow those dogs to enter AKC events.  I don't recall all the requirements to get this listing but have known some retrievers with it to run Hunt Tests.  Hunt Tests for Retrievers are designed to test dogs skills in hunting.  The Junior level requires the dog to sit at his handler's side (on lead) and wait till he is sent for the bird.  This is usually a dead duck or pheasant that is thrown by "bird boys" in the field.  The Junior requires the dog to retrieve two land birds and two water birds.  The dog must deliver to hand.  There are more rules than this but this is just a quick summary.  If Bugsy doesn't care about retrieving then I guess that isn't an option. 

I don't really think AKC could be convinced to ILP Bugsy but weirder things have happened. But hunt training is certainly a good idea that might work- you don't have to actually hunt or compete to channel and control the dog's passion.

JackieG

There are more rules than this but this is just a quick summary.  If Bugsy doesn't care about retrieving then I guess that isn't an option. 

But fetch doesn't do much for him - loves frisbee - anyway thanks again

I thought that was what ILP was he doesn't look much like a lab in person - looks more like a short(29";) well muscled dane

 I have to put a life jacket on Akyra - she just doesn't quit. We're always at the river so theres a limit on how far she can go in the water ( its a small river). that would def scare me if Akyra went out as far as Bugsy. i think theres been some really good replys.

Dogs have lungs and water in the lungs means drowning.  Any dog can get tired, breathe water or loose there place in the water.  My Gordon Setter was swimming in the Delaware when he was young doing the same thing chasing Ducks!  I didn't think much of it until he got caught in the current and started to get sweapt down the River.  Thankfully, some canoers saved him and by the time they came to shore he was a mile away from me.

Can you find a smaller body of water to go to (a pond) and practice training and allowing him to swim?  My Swiss swims but dosen't like it much so I don't have that problem with him and when my Gordon was around and would jump in any body of water he saw I was very careful where I would let him swim.   I too think a long line would be dangeous with tangling etc - River has a swim vest and if not anything it helps him stay a float and not get so tired.

 Good luck, I really have no advise.

Karen, what I do with my dogs is teach the recall "dry" first.  Then with sheep (I don't know whether he'd have enough interest in sheep to try this - but if he's that keen on ducks maybe?).  Then ducks on land - on land because I can control the situation - expose the dog with the ducks safe first and then refresh his training via the sheep, on the ducks.  Finally, the dog combines water and ducks.

That way you've gotten the "drive" part - which is the part that is hampering your recall training - under control.

And yes, it's a great idea to fit him with a life preserver vest before his next swim.  Dogs CAN drown.

I don't myself believe in stopping training because it's just too hard to train.  There's some situations you do have to control the entire dog's life.  If I owned a grey or a saluki I wouldn't move to a free range bunny farm.  But what concerns me is that Bugsy is a big boy who needs internal control - keeping him on a long line for the rest of his life isn't going to cut it.  You know that, I know.  There's going to be that deer, that bunny, that bird, that someday will make him break loose of you and put him in a life-threatening situation.

By the way, if you did want to play around with herding competition, all but AKC are open to you.  The two biggest venues are open to any breed or mix, and the Border Collie trials (what if if turned out he was a BC/Dane mix or something?) are open to anything too - they are just a lot harder than the two other venues.  but it's not unheard of to have mixes and other breeds in the lower classes. 

Oh, I've had several total freak out moments when Riley's been in the water, you're not alone! It can be very scary. There is a nearby park with a large river that I take him to a lot, and I made a rope leash out of materials from Home Depot. It extends about 30 ft I'm guessing and I ALWAYS keep it on him when he's in the water, attached to his harness. I would suggest doing this with Bugsy - a long line is much easier to reel in than a flexi lead if you need to get him to shore, and less likely to break.

A dog certainly can drown just like a person. But I find the biggest trouble is that dogs who aren't awesome swimmers like purebred labs and the sort, get overwhelmed once they are away from the shore and start swimming in any direction out of confusion or are very obviously distraught.

The biggest tip I can give you is start small and slow. Let him build up confidence. Just like people, dogs who aren't natural born swimmers will get scared in water that is over their head.

Having all this said, I'm saving up to buy Riley a life vest. I would suggest doing this with Bugsy too - not just for him, but for your own peace of mind! It will make his swimming trips much more enjoyable and less nerveracking (sp).

"But what concerns me is that Bugsy is a big boy who needs internal control - keeping him on a long line for the rest of his life isn't going to cut it.  You know that, I know.  There's going to be that deer, that bunny, that bird, that someday will make him break loose of you and put him in a life-threatening situation."

Yes I do know that and I'm not going to quit training him just feeling tired today and frustrated.  And a long line is fine but if he doesn't want to be reeled in you won't do it.

IrishSetterGrl

The biggest tip I can give you is start small and slow. Let him build up confidence. Just like people, dogs who aren't natural born swimmers will get scared in water that is over their head.

IrishSetterGrl

get overwhelmed once they are away from the shore and start swimming in any direction out of confusion or are very obviously distraught.

He knows I am not thrilled with him and has been elsewhere all morning - now he is laying on my feet - looking at me like do you still love me?

Anyway thank you all again and again.  The knowledge, experience and empathy on this board has helped me since I started asking questions on how to manage this crazy mutt - and once again you've all helped 

kpwlee

 And a long line is fine but if he doesn't want to be reeled in you won't do it.

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ROFL!    If he is in water, floating with a life jacket, reeling him in will work just fine.....until his feet touch the bottom.  Just think of how easy it is to tow something large floating in water.  I'm seeing his expression now - LOL!

 ha ha well I'm glad it makes you laugh! 

VanMorrison

Just think of how easy it is to tow something large floating in water.

VanMorrison

floating with a life jacket

I think the long line is a great idea.  You may want to bring along a pair of sea snips.  Just in case he gets the line caught on anything, you can cut the line if needed.  Divers carry these in case they get caught on fishing line or tangled in other stuff.

I so admire your patience and commitment to Bugsy!

I have to say, Karen, please don't put a long line on him in the water.  It is very dangerous.  Unless you can figure out a way for HIM to carry the snips and know how to use them! 

People who are picturing a dog caught on a snag are imagining the snag at twenty feet from the dog.  I've had a dog caught four feet from her collar.  She pulled loose from me and dove in with her ten foot line still attached (she was a new dog).  She ignored all our calls and then got tired - her head went under and when it did her leash caught on something.  She came up with her nose barely above water.  Fortunately it was a shallow pond, and not very wide, and immediately one of the people with us (a tall outdoorsy-type man) went in, swam over, and grabbed her.  Still, she almost drowned him - if he hadn't been able to touch bottom a few feet from where she was I don't know what would have happened.

Even having a collar on is dangerous.  We had to rescue a dog caught on a collar once - but that's the only time that's happened.

Don't swim a dog with a line on.  If you don't have a good enough recall to get them out of the water, work on that dry!  I rarely say "Do" and "Don't" but this is one area I do have a professional line of experience in.