Dogs and swimming

I'd put a long line on him. And maybe use a whistle to call him back and give him a treat/toy he likes when he does?

I watched Victoria Stillwell's It's me or the dog today. She was working with 2 greyhounds and their recall. She used the whistle and treat thing. 

 I don't blame you for being nervous.  I'm not sure what would bother me more....the going deaf part or the distance from shore part.

 Baily loves to swim and will go for a long time if allowed.   He only goes as far as the toy I throw (which isn't far) and he has zero prey drive.  Bugsy sounds like he has prey drive to spare and that is his real motivation. 

 I wish I was of more help....but I don't think you are over reacting.

 

Since you said he really wanted to get the ducks maybe you can take a toy to throw in the water that he can get and bring back to you also? Might be more fun for him than just swimming alone. 

PurplePets22

Bugsy sounds like he has prey drive to spare and that is his real motivation. 

kle1986 he is on a long line (20 or 50 ft) but there are issues with a longline in water.  i do not want him to get tangled on something - the line floats but still.  We do the whistle thing on land but tonight he didn't even break his focus on the ducks when I whistled. It was like the old days when I thought there'd never be a day that he 'come'

He could care less about a toy - I had a favorite log that was for retrieving but no match for a duck 

thanks guys - keep the thoughts coming!

kpwlee

 OK tell me folks - can a dog drown by overdoing it? 

How do you work on recall when they have a tendency to take off? 

What is your comfort zone with regard to how far away they get from you?

Can a dog get lost swimming - perhaps going after prey?

If your dog has a tendency to 'go for it' would you put a life vest on them even though they can swim as a safety precaution?

A dog can probably drown by overdoing it; maybe cramp up and can't move to swim, maybe just exhausted and can't swim, maybe their heart just gives out from working too much. The owner has to have that 6th sense and know when to stop their dog. Some dogs (my own included) will play fetch until they drop dead, so I have to know when to stop the game.

I don't know how to work on recall except with a LONG line (50ft or longer line). Call the dog, example "Bugsy, come" and reel them in while saying "come" and praise them to death when they're all the way in. Kind of old fashion, I assume, but that's how I taught Apollo and he is totally reliable off leash and has a great recall. Work on recall on land until it's 110% reliable- even with distractions and prey, then, IMO, move to water.

My comfort zone is around 100-150ft and as long as I can see/hear him. He's only off leash in parks/beaches, not anywhere near traffic

A dog can probably get lost while swimming for prey. I mean if they get far enough away, and you can't see them and they can't see you, and they go up on land and take off, then yeah they can get lost.

Apollo doesn't have a high prey drive, he could care less about ducks and sea gulls in the water. So, I guess, he really doens't "go for it" so I don't/won't put a life jacket on him. But, if you think putting one on B for safety is neccesary then by all means do!

 Thanks Black Labbie so 300 ft out and 450 ft left from there is a bit too far then 

BTW his recall on land is pretty good - his prey drive is through the roof but we have worked on it since day 1 and it is soooooo much better.  I just think he isn't getting that he has to 'come' from the water too - this isn't a dog that will ever have 100% recall - I fantasize that he will but even with his CGC and loads and loads of work you will not beat that prey drive everytime

this might sound mean, but there ARE times when I don't let a dog have a certain kind of 'fun' just because the "dog" part of them takes over so completely that I truly worry that safety is out the window.

I never let my dogs IN the water without a long line and none of mine would go very far.  Ducks on land or in the air are one thing but ducks swiming in front of your nose?  No dog could resist that -- particularly one that was at all prey driven. 

Soo, either I'd have him on a long line (FOREVER) or  we just plain wouldn't swim there.  That sounds mean, but I'd rather have my dog than ... not.

They can screw up in the water just like humans can - get tangled, get too tired, lose their direction, get disoriented ... go under and panic.  And if you have not got *some* kind of tether, you couldn't help them. 

kpwlee

you will not beat that prey drive everytime

What if instead of beating it you channel it? For example, my Dads 1st Springer Spaniel was extremely birdy, so my Dad pheasant and duck hunted with him. Now, let me try and think now of some activities besides hunting....

Karen, yes, I think a dog can drown.  My uncle's dog is a retrieving dog and a fabulous swimmer (and dock diver).  This summer, my brother had her out and he decided to go kayaking.  The dog swam along behind the kayak.  She just kept going and never turned back.  Eventually, he had to put her in the boat while he swam and pushed her back.  I think they start swimming and don't have the right brains to think "hey, I wonder how far I can swim and still be able to swim back..."  I think it's more like "Well, I can still swim NOW, so I'll keep going farther out..."  Often when my uncle is practicing with her she starts going the wrong direction and just keeps swimming out and out, looking for her "prey" that she's supposed to fetch.  Luckily, my uncle can sort of turn her with various commands so he can get her going the right way.  If not, she would probably swim across the lake or drown in the middle.  Also, she reacts to her prey object without thinking.  I could toss the duck into molten lava and she would jump in after the  toy. 

I have seen two Labs almost drown while training in water.  The owners didn't realize how tired and overheated (yes,even in water) the dogs were.  One dog went under the water and his owner was on the other side, probably 250 yards away.  Luckily, the dog came back up and though he was obviously having difficulty staying above water, he managed to stay afloat until his owner could get to him and get him out.  The other incident happened in a very similar manner.  I have seen many dogs suffer from heat stroke because they are so driven to retrieve they will not stop.  It is totally up to the owner to recognize this trait in their dog and keep the dog from getting in danger.  In your case, if his prey drive is so strong that his recall fails when he is chasing, then I would be concerned.  If it were my dog, I would train the recall with an electric collar or not let him get in that kind of water.

 I let Dakota swim only with a long lead. I will not let her off leash because of her tendancy to just GO. This is probably what you need to do with Bugsy until he matures a bit more.

Aussies otoh are big velcro dogs so I never worry about them off leash when swimming.

Edited to add: My sister bought her corgi a life jacket, not because the dog can't swim or she's afraid it will sink, but because the dog will swim until it gets too exhausted to make it back to shore.

Jewlieee

probably what you need to do with Bugsy until he matures a bit more.

JackieG you may have seen some of my posts in the Bird dog frustration thread - we have had issues with prey drive/recall since the beginning

Thank you all - my concerns have been addressed and confirmed.  I had spoken to a few retreiver owners who said nah he'll be fine but my gut knows my boy and thought he could be at risk. After his jaunt I worked a little on the recall in the water so we will go back to concentrating on that.

I was so happy he would swim now it is just another training challenge.   It could be such a good exercise for him that would take the onus off his legs...........

ah well back to square one for the millionth time with him

I understand your concern and it is totally justified.  We had to teach Monroe to "watch" us, meaning to look over at us to take a hand gesture direction.  Without that he would keep going.

I've used life jackets on dogs and while they are great I really don't think that one would keep a dog afloat if it breathed in water, cramped up or collapsed.

Swimming is fantastic exercise and Bugsy loves it.  I would continue to let him swim but use a long lead with a harness, not a collar.  It will give you peace of mind that you can reel him in and help with training.

Does he like to retrieve? If you started him on retriever training then you could channel his prey drive into an activity that doesn't include chasing ducks on the water.  Unfortunately, he has already learned how much fun that is!  Of course, retriever training requires lots of time, different areas to train on, fellow trainers to throw marks and I could go on and on.  You might be able to get Bugsy an ILP registration from AKC. :)  I would love to see Bugsy run a Hunt Test! LOL