"pack behavior" question

    • Gold Top Dog
    I have to do the same thing with Bailey. He "Heels" while we walk, never in front of me, on or off leash, and if hes on leash, he does not pull. When we get to the park, I let him off leash, and he can go and play (sometimes with other dogs, depending if there is anyone there)
    On some roads where there isn't a lot fo trafic usualy he is off leash, and I don't even have to tell him, he just stays by my side, or falls close in behind me, even ignooring other dogs passing by, or this little yappy dog always barking at the fence. I agree that it depends on the dog, Bailey isn't naturaly submissive, so he needs these things. Some dogs at the daycare are naturaly submissive, never start trouble and listen, other dogs, like say Gunther for example,he is not dog aggressive at all, but if you don't show him you're the boss, there WILL be a fight.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Interestingly, the trainer that I just met with spent 3 months living with/studying wolves in Alaska, and apparently alpha wolves lead from the back (alpha male last, with alpha female in front), and its the beta wolves that are at the front of the pack- apparently the betas are the ones that have something to prove (that they're better than the alpha's) so they're the ones leading....

     
    BINGO!!!!!  And, that's why, often, it's the dog that is humping, putting his paw over another dog's back, etc. that is really the "wannabe", not the leader.  Leaders rarely have to snap or growl.  Quite a lot of the time a glance is enough to put another packmate in his or her place.  And, leaders are often the dogs who share a toy with a pup - after all, they know they can have it back any time they want it. [8|]
    • Gold Top Dog
    this is exactly what i was wondering - so if on occasion it seems that the alphas are NOT walking in front, is the theory that walking in front of ones dog enforces dominance actually true?

     
    Probably not.
    • Gold Top Dog
    As I understand things, when it comes down to it the alpha dog or wolf controls the hunt but does not necessarily physically lead it. I don't believe that dogs are tyrants within their pack structures... individual dogs are able to make decisions of their own but ultimately they will defer to the leader(s).
    • Gold Top Dog
    It's interesting to me to hear all this "alphas are ALWAYS in front" business as it pertains to wolves.  Anyone that has watched any of the myriad of wolf specials on any of the discovery/animal planet channels has seen wolves hunt.  When wolves are chasing a herd of caribou, before the chase even begins the pack is spread out over a very vast area.  The hunt is alot like a relay race...Wolf 1 &2 begin the chase, wolves 3 & 4 join about 1000 yards later and so on.  Usually the alphas are the last to join the chase. 

    True pack leaders, as was said above, usually settle disputes with a glance.  They claim space with body position, and rarely will react with more than a quick snarl and growl.  They initiate play, and will even at times roll on their back during play.  nce is implied but not always exercised. 
    • Bronze
    I work along the lines that my dog is trained to obey commands when given, and apart from that, he has a lot of freedom.  There's certain things that are a no-go, eg. pulling on the lead, but he can walk ahead, beside or behind me, as long it's a loose lead and he's not tripping me up.  Off-lead there's a kind of invisible perimeter around me, and he stays within that, and keeps an eye on me for changes of direction.  He waits permission to go through doorways if I'm opening a door etc.
     
    Re the wolf thing, what I've heard is that the lower ranking wolves always go out in front.  The alpha wolves are much too valuable to the pack to risk losing them to unknown dangers.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Now that is a really interesting theory!

    Joyce