Toy/Small Dogs [What's Your Opinion?]

kelliope

I'm sorry you have trouble with some little dogs charging you, but believe me those of us with little dogs (or big dogs or no dogs) encounter the same problem with big dogs - only it can be far scarier.

 this is so true as I mentioned in my earlier response in this thread.  Almost every day I drop my dog at doggie day care I encounter large dogs that their owners cannot control, pulling desperately at the leash so that they can jump on me or other people in the waiting room or ram their heads in between people's legs to do the embarrassing "crotch sniff".  That's one thing my little dog will never do to you when she meets you is rudely sniff your crotch - she is way too short to reach there! 

 However, I do agree that people with small dogs are less likely to do any kind of real obedience training.  In my obedience class, there are on average 2 small dogs for every 10 large dogs.  But...you cannot deny the fact that an untrained large dog with behavioral issues can do a lot more damage to a person or another animal than a small dog.  Large dogs can knock you down on the ground.  Attacks from large dogs often involve hospital trips, surgery and can even kill a person .  My sister in law had her entire lower lip torn off of her face by a german shorthair pointer 2 days after it was adopted from a shelter.  Her face is scarred for the rest of her life.  A friend of mine has a niece who had hours of reconstructive surgery from a bite by the family doberman when she was 11.  I really don't think that can be compared to getting bit on the ankle by someone's untrained obnoxious yorkie.

kelliope

my toy can probably beat a lot of your big flossy dogs anyday

I apologize if I misinterpreted if the above comment = "my dog works really well"  then why say the same thing again right afterwards.  Beat at what? may be that would have made things more clear

kelliope

but believe me those of us with little dogs (or big dogs or no dogs) encounter the same problem with big dogs - only it can be far scarier

That was a big part of my post. I can say that at 42 years of age I have never seen a large dog instigate with a small dog. If a small dog decides to ( or is encouraged to) be ferocious when faced with a larger dog  and the larger dog reacts,  well sorry thats not the fault of the larger dog.  It does seem that small/toy dog owners ( not all but a whole lot) seem to think its cute that their dog "thinks its tough".  Then they are all put out that the larger dog acted aggressively toward their dog.  Bugsy has tons of dog friends and isn't aggressive with any - two of his closest buddies are a westie and a welsh terrier.  Both are great dogs and they have a great time together.  But we regularly encounter a super aggressive jack russell and then this pack of little terriers as well as a trio of schnauzers that run at us barking like fools.  So if in Bugsy's head small dog = snapping, growling, nipping small dog I can understand it.  If he were to become aggressive towards small dogs I would understand it - don't read that as I condone it,  I am doing all that I can to ensure that that isn't the conclusion he comes to, and unfortunately I can tell you that he is getting more agitated by it. And it angers me. We have never had this experience with a dog over 30lbs.  That is MY experience and his.

kelliope

Let's face it - no one likes an untrained, unmanageable dog regardless of it's size.

I don't think I said otherwise. I mentioned that I don't like small/toy dog owners thinking that aggression in their dogs is cute.  I especially don't' like that when a larger dog reacts they get all bent out of shape and have to "protect" their small dog. Teach it, socialize it, don't encourage it to be nasty.  I seriously have never seen a large dog go after a small dog - without being provoked.  I don't blame a larger dog for responding. Not today not tomorrow not any day.  I feel sorry for Bugs when he's on a leash expected to be totally chilled out and there are 5 dogs all over him biting his feet and legs and barking and snapping.  I fear that he will snap back ( he hasn't) or even swat them with a paw, heck he doesn't even bark at them.  We can't walk anywhere in our neighborhood without passing this house.  I repeat that if this was 5 hundred lb dogs animal control would be involved, there is a double standard and that peeves me.  Big time.

I don't like untrained dogs of any size but MY experience has been that small/toys are the ones that are less likely to be trained.  Does that mean they can't be trained? NO.  It just means that a lot of people that have toy/small breed dogs don't treat their dogs as dogs.  I haven't met a hundred pound dog that wasn't treated as a dog and who hasn't been trained.  Does that mean they don't exist? NO

So I think its great if your small dogs are well trained I think its great when any dog is well trained.  But iDog isn't a representation of all dogs.  MY experience has been very negative with small/toy dogs.  I can't say otherwise. I accept that others have had different experiences.  Accept that mine have been different than yours.

I was simply pointing out that you mis-read jsmithcoop's post.  You took it (rather aggressively I might add) to say she was saying her dog could beat up some bigger dogs.  She wasn't saying that at all.  She wasn't saying her dog was aggressive.  She was saying her dog could beat a bigger dog at work - in her book anyway.  And now you've quoted it as though I said it - which I did not.

Bottom line is this - small dogs are small and often easily intimidated by large, physical, hyper dogs.  That is a simple fact.  Put your dog in a room full of elephant sized dogs and see if he doesn't get a little intimidated.  I, for one, don't find it cute if a small dog feels the need to protect himself.  I find it sad that he is put in that position by his owner. 

 As I said I am sorry if you have had bad experiences with small dogs.  I have had many very bad experiences with large, aggressive, unmanageable dogs with very rude owners who let their dogs rush up and bowl mine over.  So much so that my little Chi had become terrified of big dogs with the exception of the ones she already knew.  I have worked on this with her and have tried to re-establish some trust that she will not be mauled by big dogs.  However, I don't chalk up all big dogs to be aggressive, unmanageable oafs - I chalk it up to the fact that there are some real idiot dog owners - of all sizes.  

kelliope

And now you've quoted it as though I said it - which I did not.

I just quoted it from within your post I knew it was not your words.  You read one thing in their words I read another.  I'm still not sure what "beat your big flossy dog" means 

As for the rest of this I think we agree but come from different ends of the spectrum.  Your Chi is traumatized by over enthusiastic large dogs, my large dog is stressed out by yapping biting attacking small dogs in a pack.  Either scenario we are left trying to fix/prevent issues with our dogs because others aren't in control of theirs.  Fortunately my dog isn't completely freaked out - yet.  But I see it building.

I never said ALL small/toys.  Lets be clear.  You say you 

kelliope

I have had many very bad experiences with large, aggressive, unmanageable dogs with very rude owners

About a month ago we were on a walk and at one point surrounded by cows.  My dog didn't react by barking, nipping, growling, attacking or hiding.  He was pretty darn curious and his nose was in overdrive but that was that.  Not elephants but a whole lot larger than him. 

As I said in each post in this thread it is the owners - unfortunately MY  experience has been that small/toy owners are less likely to be responsible owners.  This has influenced my opinion of small/toy dogs.

Just as your experience has been

kelliope

very rude owners who let their dogs rush up and bowl mine over

Lastly for me in this thread:

kelliope

I, for one, don't find it cute if a small dog feels the need to protect himself.  I find it sad that he is put in that position by his owner. 

MY experience isn't that the small/toy has to protect itself its been that the small/toy is the instigator.  It puts itself in that position, may be it wouldn't if the owner had done a decent job training and socializing their dog.  What I feel is that its a shame that the large dog that responds to the small/toy aggression is considered the "BAD" dog.

Our experiences are too different to have similar perspectives.  I don't see all small/toys as bad.  As stated we have friends with and our dogs are friends with small/toys. But my bead experiences have all been with small/toys.

I can't say otherwise 

First of all, the post was about working a toy fox terrier versus a big dog.  Not about any dogs beating each other up.  No one on here with toy dogs said that they thought it was cute that their dog was aggressive.  In fact no one said that their toy dogs were aggressive at all.  

Honestly, I can’t say that I see any difference whatsoever with out of control dogs.  I’ve had it go both ways- where we’ve had the big dog being bothered by the little one, and where we’ve had the little one be bothered a big dog.  I can tell you the second scenario is far scarier.   

If you’ve ever had a small dog walking and had a dog 20 times her size try to get her, you kind of have a perspective change.  It was quite a different situation than a mini dachshund annoying our 75 lb shepherd.  

All the loose out of control dogs around here are large dogs, mainly labs, but yet I never feel the need to say that lab owners are less likely to be responsible owners.  I think you need to realize that responsible people can have all sorts of dogs as well as irresponsible people, too.  I’ve seen small dogs that were out of control, but I can also say I’ve seen just as many (probably more) medium to large dogs that were out of control or loose.  

Amen!  I can't imagine any responsible dog owner, regardless of the size of the dog, would be proud that their dog was aggressive.  An aggressive dog is dog out of control and insecure.  How could anyone be proud of that.  That is a reflection of the owner, not the dog (barring any medical or mental issues that may plague a dog). 

Any responsible dog handler does everything possible to prevent this kind of behavior.  Toys get a reputation for being "nasty", "yappy" or "ankle biters" because many owners don't understand the dual world the dog lives in.  The heart and soul of a big dog in a small package.  The instinct to confront every threat and the insecurity in a world of giants.  A well trained and well handled Toy is every bit as good a dog as the biggest well trained and well handled dog.

 When i lived at home we had 2 jack russells, a beagle, and a rhodesian ridgeback. The oldest jack russell was always the instigator. Very sweet with people, but hardcore towards my ridgeback. At first the RR kind of let it go, but it was TERRIFYING when my RR fought back. The funny thing is my mom was outraged that "my beast" would try and hurt her precious angel. Don't get me wrong, i love ginger and always will but she got away with more aggression, and as soon as my RR defended herself...it was on.

that being said, i do like small dogs...i just prefer an extremely athletic dog that i can take on an 8 mile hike, etc. 

RidgebackGermansShep

that being said, i do like small dogs...i just prefer an extremely athletic dog that i can take on an 8 mile hike, etc. 

Then you'd love my bigger Chi who hikes at least 5 miles with me - every day in the summer and as often as possible in the winter.   The little girl Chi has a bum leg so she rides in the pouch for 1/2 the trip, but she's quite the trooper too.  Having always had big dogs, I never thought they'd be as athletic as they are.  In fact the reason we go back at 5 miles is because I'm the one who gets tuckered out!

WOW!  With a JR and an RR to chose from, you had the best of both worlds for athletes.  Because of some personal situations, I chose small dogs, and man do I love them, but I do miss my German Sheps.  My sis has a Shepherd mix, about 105lbs,  my bro has a Choc Lab and a Boxer.  I have so much fun with them.  I also volunteer at a shelter for homeless dogs.  The ones I care for a huge.  I just love to wrestle and hug on 'em when I go to feed, water and clean.

I don't take my little guys around them often because they have not "grown up together".  I respect how large my big buddies are and I respect how big my little buddies THINK  they are.  My 6lb Yorkie nipped my sis's 105lb Shep on the nose when the Shep was being a bit rude.  Now the Shep won't even look at my Yorkie when I take her.  Because of my health issues, I have not been walking regularly, but three of my four dogs have health issues that limit their walking habits.  I am hoping my new Pom pup will be a walker.  I do miss the great long walks I had with my Shepherd.

I have owned a few small/toy dogs, as have my daughters.  I have come to the conclusion that I am a big dog person.  The 3 small dogs that I owned were Bear (an adorable little mixed breed), Zip (a small blue heeler), and Ernie (a poodle/bichon cross).  My oldest daughter has a Pomeranian. My second daughter had a Chihuahua.  My mom had Yorkies. My aunt had chihuahuas. My friend has mini doxies.

I have found all of these dogs to be yappy and hyper. They are not good with my small grandchildren, they are harder to potty train, they piddle when they get nervous. They are always underfoot.  (But they are all adorable and were/are deeply loved.) 

For me, give me a big dog with a calm demeaner that doesn't get in-between my legs or under my feet and trip me, that has a deep bark that doesn't grate on my ears, that is gentle and tolerant with little ones, and that doesn't piddle when they get nervous. Add in some tight curls that never shed, a fluffly top-knot and tail, and I am a happy lady!!  And for the record, I agree with you on the poodle crosses - if you want the qualities of a poodle, get a poodle!  They come in all sizes and colors. 

I met my first Westie a couple months back. WOW what a sassy little spitfire....I loved him, lol! He was a lil soldier, he swam, played with the big dogs and even had his own flirt pole. It was great to see him not be coddled or babied like some small dog woners do!

I have a Golden and three Westies.  My Westies have been trained to the same level as my Golden.  I have three small grandchildren (2 Toddlers and one baby) and my Westies get along with them just fine.  They have been trained how to behave around my grandchildren, just as my grandchildren are learning how to behave around my dogs.  My Westies do not piddle when they get nervous, in fact they don't get nervous.  They are also not yappy or hyper.  If they start barking, they are told not to bark.  Believe me, when I walk through my neighborhood, the big dogs bark at us more than my Westies bark at them.  They also are not underfoot any more than my Golden. 

My Westies love to play and they play hard.  They are not some timid little dog hiding in a corner--afraid of life. My dogs are ready to go with me and do whatever I would like to do.  They would probably even like it if I did more.  I spend a large part of my vacation time in the mountains hiking with my dogs.  My Westies are lovers of life and try to get all they can from it.  They are easy to live with and a joy to live with.  They make me laugh and keep me sane in a world that is not very sane anymore.  I cannot imagine my life without any of my dogs.

Sounds like your family has quite a history with small doggies.  Unfortunately, it also sounds like there is quite a history of poorly informed small doggie owners.  All of the problems you mentioned are problems I have seen in poorly trained, socialized and owned dogs of every size.

I don't mean be offensive toward your family.  It's just that not only have I had dogs of every size, but I also have worked rescue for over twenty years.  Obviously the traits of being a tripping hazard is one that toys cannot get away from (I have tripped over my sisters GSD more than once), however, all of the other traits you speak of are all owner issues, not the dog.   My brother has a Boxer and a Choc. Lab.  They both are mouthy, hyper, pee when anxious..........  my bro and sis in law are not good dog owners.  They don't understand what it takes to mold the character and temperament of a dog.  I have four toys and all four are very quiet, calm, potty trained in record time, and no peeing when excited.    The four Toys I had before these were the same.

I would be the first to say that I would not want any of mine with young kids, but that is only because Toys don't have the body size to protect themselves from clumsy or ignorant children.  Young children are not capable of empathy.  They don't understand the consequences of inflicting pain.   My co-worker just brags and brags about how good her Pitt Bull is with the kids and how they can jump on him and ride him like a horse.  She is now considering givning the dog away because he is growling at anyone who gets around his hind quarters.  All that cutesie jumping on the gentle giant has injured the dogs hip.  Now he will pay yet another price.  They may even put him down.

All dogs do well if they are raised properly and in the proper environment.  Not evey dog is meant for every circumstance, but it is for the owner to choose the breed, breed-type, size and age that best suits their character and the environment they are providing for the dog. 

I'm glad you have found the proper "fit" for you.   Dogs of all sizes need great homes.  I'm glad your big guys have you :)

I so agree with you Mdog59. 

Jewlieee

I have never owned one and likely never will. Small/toy dogs do not fit my lifestyle.

That said, I have a bad opinion of most toy dogs simply due to many owners not training them. Untrained unsocialized toy dogs tend to be barky bitey annoying dogs. This is not true in every case, obviously and is my stereotype. 

Same here. But here is my true life example:

The couple who live next door let their Maltese charge every dog it encounters....barking, lunging, growling, showing teeth, and if the other dog comes too close; nipping/biting, all while on a flexi leash....they think it's cute and they always say something like, "she's just showing how tough she is!" or "she just doesn't want to be bossed around for being little!" Usually they pick her up if she won't stop barking.