Help please, I Don't want to loose our pup

OK, brace yourself for an interrogation!!!!

How old is your son?
What kind of stimulation is this dog getting?  How much exercise, what kind of play and training?  Does he have any interactive toys?

As for house breaking and making him reliable around the cats, confinement is the key.  Supervise supervise supervise and when you can't supervise, confine him to a secure dog proof, easily cleaned area.  Does he have a crate?

Crucially, do you use NILIF ("Nothing in life is free", or, "Learn to Earn")?  If not, implement it as soon as possible and if your son is the right age he could be involved with this.

Last but not least, What's your dogs name? []

I think I answered several of these in the first post.
 
My son is 6 he helps with all aspects of caring for our pets. In fact the cats are his though they think he is theirs.
 
Our dog is Loki and so far he's determined to live up to his name. [] His training is daily and he gets several play sessions daily, running, fetching that sort of thing. He has tons of toys from stuffed animals to chew toys.  We have a huge back yard which he romps around in.  We have a pool as well but so far this water dog wants NOTHING to do with the water. Granted it's to cold to swim right now but during the summer he'd just sit and stare even though you could tell he wanted to join in.
 
We don't crate, the dog sleeps upstairs in our master suite at night (in the hall outside the closests on the tile floor as it's cool). And during the day he snoozes on the patio or on the floor in my office by the desk or in the playroom by my son (son is on the couch dog is on the floor).  He use to sleep beside the toilet but he got to large to fit. [] 
 
We give praise/treats during training and always reward good behavior even if it's just a loving pat.
 
This is the same exact treatment I've given every dog I've had and this is the first time it hasn't worked well.
 
Perhaps art of the problem is that he wasn't socialized enough as a puppy? The breeder had 3 large kennels in a barn. They were country folks with lots of room and several breeding age Goldens. Loki was in a kennel with another dozon or so male puppies next to another kennel of the same configuration and the last kennel had the 2 mothers and female puppies. The breeder told me they had only recently been separated for showing.  Now that I'm typing it all out it sounds worse than it appeared at the time.
 
 

It is not typical for a six year old to be able to manage an adolescent dog. 
 
If you want to change the current situation, you will need to make substantial changes in your own behavior before you can change your dog's behavior.
 
If the changes are more than can be tolerated, contact golden rescue and release the dog.  I really hope he will not be relegated to an outdoor kennel.
 
You need 3 to 4 periods per day to work the dog's body and mind.  Returning to organized obedience classes would also be a good idea.  The NILF approach is also helpful. 
 
If you want specifics all you need do is ask.  There will be plenty of folks who will offer suggestions.

It says in her post that the son is 6 years old.  That's a little young for him to be much help in the training department.  Or at least IMO.   I would definately recommend the NILIF being done by all family members, even the son as much as he can.  And the crate training or confinement is also a good idea.  Lots and lots of mental stimulation and exercise, so basically everything Chuffy said!!!  I'm sure others will be along to offer more advice.
 
It seems everyone posted at the same time[]  Told you there would be others!!

My son helps with feeding, playing time ect. He is not responsible for Loki's care but he helps as much as he's able.
 
As stated he gets several play periods during the day.  We have never quit training with him. I handle the majority of his training and play time as I am the one home most often.
 
We don't have an outdoor kennel nor would I choose that as an option to behaviour problems. We have a large fenced back yard which he enjoys spending time in but he's not tossed outside everytime he gets out of hand or anything like that.
 
Luvinmydoggies; why would I crate the dog? I realize crating is good for many reasons but what specifically would crate training do in *this* instance? My folks crated their dogs when they slept at night and when my parents weren't at home but I'm at home most of the time and he loves to be outside when I'm away. At night he sleeps in our room with a problem.  I'm truely open to ideas, I just want to understand the whys and hows. If I crated him when he bullies my son wouldn't that be the same as tossing him outside or other punishment?
 
Ok specific questions.
 
Without confinement:
1. How do I get him to stop chasing the cats?
2. How do I get him to stop bullying my son when I'm out of the room?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

1. How do I get him to stop chasing the cats?
2. How do I get him to stop bullying my son when I'm out of the room?

This will only come with time and careful training.  The dog should never be left alone with the cats.  Is there another dog friendly dog nearby that he can play and romp with?  The dog probably means no harm to the cats and probably just wants to play.  Unfortunately dogs and cats don't play the same way (as you well know by now) so the body language signals are going haywire.

IMO the best strategy is management of the environment.  Do not give your dog free access to the house, especially in areas that the cats currently frequent.

Your second question is pretty easily answered as well:  The dog and child should NEVER be alone together.  It doesn't matter if you have a people friendly golden or a people friendly poodle.  Kids and dogs should never be left unsupervised together.  The reason is that children send "prey" signals.  The way children move and speak and get excited tells the dog's instinct that "this animal is prey." 

Under your supervision the child can help participate in a NILIF protocol, but ONLY under supervised conditions. 

So in a nutshell:  More dog on dog interaction, restrict access to specific areas and supervise, supervise, supervise.  

I think a good start would be reading the training forum since it looks like there are some ideas in there I hadn't considered.

It's not punishment to crate your dog.
Not unless you make it that way. Make the crate fun. Deck it out with a nice cushiony doggy bed. Give him treats in there. Feed him in there. I'm not saying keep him in there all the time, but occasional time-outs (for sanity's sake) is not harmful and not a punishment. When I'm trying to watch a movie and Ella decides she wants to play and won't leave me alone, she gets to go rest in her crate for a little bit. But she doesn't mind because I made sure the crate was not a negative experience for her.

Crating your dog when you're not around will keep your dog from being able to attack your cats.
As long as the cats aren't messing with him, he won't be able to mess with them...if he's in a crate.

The cats have the run of the house. I've had cats and dogs living in harmony since I was an infant, in fact I think as a baby I played with both. We always introducted the dogs as puppies (not kittens to dogs) and it worked out. Until Loki was 6months old he was fine as well but I think the retriever part of him kicked in and we will have to figure a way to keep them apart more.

Sorry, bad wording on my part about "out of the room". We have a large california modern open floor plan (not by choice) so all the rooms flow together. So our son is never left alone at all but with this floor plan I can move about and not be right next to hime but always see him. If I call my son over Loki is right there at him trying to "herd" him or force a play session. That's what I mean by bullying him. My son can't move without Loki in his face if we aren't right there to put him in a sit/down position or at times actually physically hold him.  He's not agressive as in trying to bite but he's trying to dominate and force my son to do what Loki wants.

Would a 2nd dog in the mix further complicate things or give more of that dog on dog interaction? And if another dog is ok would a smaller breed be ok?

I don't know how I'd restrict access to areas downstairs. Loki is already restricted to downstairs during the day so the cats can have a break upstairs. We don't have typical rooms that we can close off downstairs.

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

It's not punishment to crate your dog.
Not unless you make it that way. Make the crate fun. Deck it out with a nice cushiony doggy bed. Give him treats in there. Feed him in there. I'm not saying keep him in there all the time, but occasional time-outs (for sanity's sake) is not harmful and not a punishment. When I'm trying to watch a movie and Ella decides she wants to play and won't leave me alone, she gets to go rest in her crate for a little bit. But she doesn't mind because I made sure the crate was not a negative experience for her.

Crating your dog when you're not around will keep your dog from being able to attack your cats.
As long as the cats aren't messing with him, he won't be able to mess with them...if he's in a crate.

 
Wouldn't this be the same as allowing him to go outside when he wants to get wild? That's what I do right now. If he wants to romp and run I let him out (he loves it). The cats NEVER mess with the dog. One won't come anywhere around him and the other stays as high up on furniture as possible to stay out of reach which is a challenge as the dog is as tall as most furniture.
 
The one time a crate would be nice is at night when we want the dog inside but he wants to follow the cats upstairs and they try to hide in my son's room. The dog ends up waking up my son. I nearly have him trained not to go upstairs without us (for sleep time) and to never go in my son's room without an invite. The whole house is hardwood but the bedrooms so Loki has learned that carpet means wait at the door for an invite (works 80%) of the time at least.

Well, my take on this is that your dog has a dominant personality and shouldn't have been placed in home with small children. Puppies in the litter will have different personalities and that's why it's crucial to match them up correctly with their new families. The right match is wonderful, the wrong match can be a disaster.

This is similar to what happened to my aunt and uncle and their kids. They had a Dobe previously who was wonderful with their kids. After that dog passed away and they had a total of 4 kids now- the oldest being about 12 years old and the youngest being around 2, they got another Dobe from a breeder. They did all of the same things (including obedience training like you did), but this dog is just really different. He's also very dominant, pushy and okay with the older kids, but always trying to bully the younger ones. Of course they didn't leave them unattended and were constantly having to step in. That gets VERY tiresome after awhile. [&o] And I should add that they have a HUGE yard and house, basically an estate and the dog got plenty of exercise. Last I knew they wanted to give the dog away, I'm not sure what they ended up doing.

One thing to consider is that your dog is 8 months old, so now until about 2 or 3 years old is a period of adolescence. Dogs go through it to different degrees, but with a more dominant one like yours, he's going to likely be a real handful and test you a lot. Is he neutered? That would help a little, but not too terribly much from what I've seen. I really don't know what to tell you. On the one hand, he'll probably calm down in a few years. On the other hand is it really fair for your son, husband, and cats to be miserable until then? [8|] It's a tough situation and best of luck with whatever you decide.

No no no no no no no.  Don't do it.  Double trouble. You have enough on your hands.

Would a 2nd dog in the mix further complicate things or give more of that dog on dog interaction? And if another dog is ok would a smaller breed be ok?

To stop chasing cats you need to train a leave it command as well as manage his behavior so he can no longer practice chasing cats.  A long line, use of closed doors or baby gates would be some management options to prevent cat chasing.
 
As to teaching leave it, use the short lesson, multiple practice approach.  Walk up the cats, as soon as he shows any interest in the cat, touch him on the back at the base of the tail to get his attention,  move quickly away from the cat (backward) saying leave it.  Lavishly praise and or treat for leaving the cat.
 
As to bullying of your son, don't allow the dog access unsupervised.

ORIGINAL: Catka

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

It's not punishment to crate your dog.
Not unless you make it that way. Make the crate fun. Deck it out with a nice cushiony doggy bed. Give him treats in there. Feed him in there. I'm not saying keep him in there all the time, but occasional time-outs (for sanity's sake) is not harmful and not a punishment. When I'm trying to watch a movie and Ella decides she wants to play and won't leave me alone, she gets to go rest in her crate for a little bit. But she doesn't mind because I made sure the crate was not a negative experience for her.

Crating your dog when you're not around will keep your dog from being able to attack your cats.
As long as the cats aren't messing with him, he won't be able to mess with them...if he's in a crate.

Wouldn't this be the same as allowing him to go outside when he wants to get wild? That's what I do right now. If he wants to romp and run I let him out (he loves it). The cats NEVER mess with the dog. One won't come anywhere around him and the other stays as high up on furniture as possible to stay out of reach which is a challenge as the dog is as tall as most furniture.

The one time a crate would be nice is at night when we want the dog inside but he wants to follow the cats upstairs and they try to hide in my son's room. The dog ends up waking up my son. I nearly have him trained not to go upstairs without us (for sleep time) and to never go in my son's room without an invite. The whole house is hardwood but the bedrooms so Loki has learned that carpet means wait at the door for an invite (works 80%) of the time at least.

No, it wouldn't be the same.  A is a chance to calm down so that he can be let out to play and interact more appropriately.  Any time he gets pushy with your son he can be removed from the situation.  It should never be used or viewed as a punishment though.  He can get regular "rests" in there each day so that he and the cats can get used to one another's presence without him chasing them.  And it is somewhere for him to sleep at night.  Do a forum search on crates.... there are loads of tips in the training section.

It sounds like he gets plenty physical exercise already, so perhaps more mental stimulation may help.  Up the ante when playing - turn "fetch" into hide and seek games where he has to use his nose and his brain to find his toys.  Feed his meals via an interactive toy (like a Kong).  Stretch him more with training.... try teaching more challenging tasks.  Get him a circle of "doggy friends" to play with once or twice a week (but I advise against a 2nd dog at this stage).  Consider doggy day care - I know you are mostly home but it would give him a change of environment, a chance to play with other dogs and will be wonderfully stimulating for him.  I would suggest swimming too but it sounds like he hates water!

I'd recommend you try clicker training as this is very tiring for dogs (a tired dog is a good dog) and it is also a form of training which even young children can get involved in which will give your son a little more control over him (although they should still never be left alone together obviously).  One way it could be used is to click/treat any calm behaviour when the cats are around for example.  Click/treat if the dog is calm and looks away from them for example, starting in the crate.  I would also teach a good "leave", as that is useful anyway, but on the whole I think you want the dog to simply relax and ignore the cats on his own without having to nag him to do it and this is one way to help achieve that.

I would consider neutering in your case, but be aware it will not solve any existing problems, it might help to calm him and make training easier but even if it does the effects will not be seen for months after the op as he already has plenty of hormones racing around his sytem.

I can't recommend a crate highly enough, I really can't.  I might have missed it in your posts but I don't think you mentioned whether you did NILIF.....  if not start straight away, it will make a huge difference.  Just like kids, dogs need boundaries so (if you haven't already) decide on areas in the house where the dog is not allowed to go - certain items of furniture for instance or certain rooms. 

I think for this dog and your family to be happy you have a lot of hard work on your hands.... it sounds like it is do-able though.  It just depends how badly you want to keep him.