Roscoe has lost it.

Beejou

Any ideas on working with him and managing him are greatly appreciated. Again I can't afford a behaviorist but will try anything I can.

If you are going to go at it yourself, I would recommend a training seminar called CONSTRUCTIONAL AGGRESSION TREATMENT (2nd Edition) by Dr. Jesus Rosales-Ruiz and Kellie Snider. The first edition was Tawzer Dog Videos's "all time highest seller". That just tells you how popoular this video is. It is 10 hours worth of viewing material. There are a couple of testimonials for it on the Tawzer website. They are calling this a "groundbreaking new method." I heard about it a while ago, and in fact even spiritdogs mentioned it in a thread of mine recently.

It is a hefty price tag at $135 dollars, though. You'd probably get a really good Applied Animal Behaviorist for cheaper than that. I think they charge $80 on average? The thing is though, you might need several visits by the behaviorist. If you are a shelter volunteer, you can get a 15% discount. Just put "shelter" in the notes when you order. That would work out to be $114 + shipping = $122. How much CAN you spend? Maybe we could make better suggestions. Because I have a feeling this video is out of the question as well. A great many more of us are hurting financially too, so don't feel bad.

espencer

Maybe you are confused because i used the word "prey". Let's say that once you start moving you become "weak" on the dog's eyes, you agreed to give up your personal space to him. If you stand your ground the dog will know that his "tactics" are not working BUT since you are not doing any aggressive moves either then he will realize you are not a threat.

I won't get into whether I agree with this or not, but my point was that this is beside the point.  Strangers jogging along a public sidewalk cannot be expected to stop and confront the OP's dog behind a fence.  A jogger possibly appearing like a prey object does not excuse the dog's behavior.  If so, then why are SchH3 dogs not attacking random passersby?  They are trained in prey drive from birth, even use it for the "escape bite" in competition. Again, I think this is a temperament issue, not a drive issue.

The OP needs to change the dog's behavior, not change the behavior of other humans and dogs who are confronted by this dog.

Some dogs just have issues and bite.  I've been bitten/attacked twice, one GSD, one large lab mix.   The GSD bit me in the face.  I don't remember this but I'm told it was unprovoked and that the dog "had issues".  The lab was provoked by another dog going by and redirected on me, biting me hard in many places.  Like you said I stood perfectly still with my arms down and my head hung, avoiding eye contact.  The dog kept at it until someone pulled him off.  Both times I was not doing anything aggressive or moving away from the dog.  Maybe there were subtle things done to set the dogs off, but that's no excuse.  A well-tempered dog should not be so easily picking up on these cues and attacking.

Liesje

The OP needs to change the dog's behavior, not change the behavior of other humans and dogs who are confronted by this dog.

Nobody has said otherwise

Aside from the other suggestions, I would like to add that I just manage my aggressive dog.  She's unpredictable with people and has gotten more so with age.  And, she's never been good with any other animals. 

So, she is not allowed off leash, near fences  and if people are over she is behind a closed door.  It might sound like this option is not good but one, it has prevented a bite from happening in six years.  And, two, frankly, the dog is happier not having to worry about being afaid or whatever her perception is that causes her aggression. 

I've seen dogs that bite when they want something to run so they can chase it. If it doesn't run they bite it. I've also seen dogs that bite if you don't back off. They'll tentatively walk up to you and you think they are at least vaguely friendly, then chomp.

But like Liesje said, it doesn't matter either way.

espencer

Maybe you are confused because i used the word "prey". Let's say that once you start moving you become "weak" on the dog's eyes, you agreed to give up your personal space to him.

This makes no sense to me, sorry.   If you become "weak" in the dog's eyes then surely he sees you are no threat and therefore has no more need to chase you, even more so than if you simply stood still?

I also don't understand how, in practise, you can get all passers by to stop outside the fence until Roscoe has determined they are not a threat and given up charging the fence... if indeed that IS what would happen, and not that he would keep going until he either bust the fence and possibly hurt someone, or injured himself.

If he has a medical issue then I really don't believe that all this "he sees you as weak" or "he sees it is no threat" is really particularly relevant, as you are labouring under the assumption that this is how a "normal" dog operates.  Even if this were 100% correct, if he has a medical problem, all bets are pretty much off, until that medical issue has been diagnosed and treatment has at least begun, because he is NOT operating in the same way as a "normal" dog.

 - - 

I truly do hope you find some answers that can help you and Roscoe..... My only advice is to thoroughly rule out a medical issue first and foremost.  Best of luck.

 How did your vet appointment  go? I guess it'll be a few days before the bloodwork comes back.

My older dog attacked a sleeping dog, once, and we had a talk about where dogs who can't live in harmony go. You don't attack a sleeping dog, here. Sorry, not allowed. Turns out, the medication she was on was totally wrong for her. A medication switch totally turned her around. A vet check, first, is always, always, always the way to go. I hope there's something equally simple that will help Roscoe.

Chuffy

This makes no sense to me, sorry.   If you become "weak" in the dog's eyes then surely he sees you are no threat and therefore has no more need to chase you, even more so than if you simply stood still?

I also don't understand how, in practise, you can get all passers by to stop outside the fence until Roscoe has determined they are not a threat and given up charging the fence... if indeed that IS what would happen, and not that he would keep going until he either bust the fence and possibly hurt someone, or injured himself.

If he has a medical issue then I really don't believe that all this "he sees you as weak" or "he sees it is no threat" is really particularly relevant, as you are labouring under the assumption that this is how a "normal" dog operates.  Even if this were 100% correct, if he has a medical problem, all bets are pretty much off, until that medical issue has been diagnosed and treatment has at least begun, because he is NOT operating in the same way as a "normal" dog.

I never suggested that the OP should make every jogger stop when they pass by, that's just plain stupid. I was just talking what to do in general if a dog attack you in the street.

I agree that if a medical issue is the problem then there is nothing to think about. Just in case it's not then that's why i suggest all this.

Maybe if i use the word "weaker" than the dog? Meaning the dog realizes he can win the battle against a not so confident human who can still be a threat?

Being attacked twice, stood on my ground and the dog never touched me, i think i know what i'm talking about. I would like to hear your experiences as well.

espencer

I was just talking what to do in general if a dog attack you in the street.

Which is kind of off-topic, here, then...

I hope (in a strange way) that Roscoe's bloodwork shows something - I feel like a medical issue would be so much simpler. Either way, none of us can judge you since we're not in your situation. I think you will know what is right for Roscoe.

espencer

Being attacked twice, stood on my ground and the dog never touched me, i think i know what i'm talking about. I would like to hear your experiences as well.

In general, I agree with what you are saying, but a good pet should not have such a low threshold and for me that's the bottom line, THAT is the issue here, not how to thwart an attacking dog.  I've also been attacked twice, as in actually bit multiple times.  Standing ground and/or not making quick or aggressive movements did nothing.  I don't know how many times I've been threatened or charged by a dog as you describe.  At the shelter it happened a lot.  Many of the dogs were never socialized and were abused, and I might just look like, smell like, or act like the person that hurt them.  It happened a lot to DH as well, much more so since he is a large man.  But again, just because you can stop it doesn't make it OK or normal.  I don't see why it's even being brought up here.

Hope Roscoe made out OK. 

Liesje

I've also been attacked twice, as in actually bit multiple times.  Standing ground and/or not making quick or aggressive movements did nothing.  I don't know how many times I've been threatened or charged by a dog as you describe.  At the shelter it happened a lot.  Many of the dogs were never socialized and were abused, and I might just look like, smell like, or act like the person that hurt them.  It happened a lot to DH as well, much more so since he is a large man.  But again, just because you can stop it doesn't make it OK or normal.

I dont remember said it was ok or normal.

The simple fact of looking down while standing on your ground can make the difference (sign of non confidence on a dog's mind) along with body posture (shoulders forward) or just plain face expression of nervousness. Dogs can read all those body signs and determine if they will attack or not.

Roscoe goes after people that passes by so this subject is not off topic. 

You have to give dogs a little bit more credit, even if you smell, look or act like the person who abused them, if your attitude towards them is different they will know, they might not come wagging their tail and wanting to be petted (i can totally see future responses twisting my words to make a point) but the dog will know your intentions by your body language. If you come towards the dog with a tense face and body language similar to when you are getting ready to beat up a dog then dont count on it.

espencer

The simple fact of looking down while standing on your ground can make the difference (sign of non confidence on a dog's mind) along with body posture (shoulders forward) or just plain face expression of nervousness. Dogs can read all those body signs and determine if they will attack or not.

And sometimes they will just plain still attack...

Liesje

And sometimes they will just plain still attack...

....an inexperienced person (not naming anyone in specific) that does not know how to deal with aggressive dogs, sure they will.

But at least that person's ego will remain intact by blaming the dog for his/her human lack of skills dealing with aggressive dogs.