(Relatively) new behaviour issue with Ben

Just yesterday I started the "enough" command and then "good girl" when she stops.  It is already working!  She IS a smart dog.  !!  Thanks for the advice.

I'm interested in hearing how Turrid's method works too, does she give any explanation as to its rationale? 

 I've always found that a) "checking out" any apparent cause of the noise, say looking out the window, b) saying "thanks for the alert but everything is fine that's enough", and c) then acting totally unconcerned and flat-out ignoring the dog until he's quiet (then a gentle praise word or pat) fixes these problems. The difficulty comes in when you're angry about the noise, or worried about losing your dog due to the noise and your tension comes across to the dog who thus feels his alert-efforts are justifiable.

also some dogs get "rewarded" by barking at passersby: they bark, the passerby leaves. Wow says the dog, I am so powerful. In which case you may want to pay some strangers to stand outside your house chatting until the dog shuts up. And repeat numerous times.

espencer

spiritdogs

 Turid Rugaas has an interesting suggestion in her new book.  She says just place yourself between the dog and the door (you should face the door, but not speak to the dog at all), and place your arms down at your sides, a bit out, with palms facing the dog.  I haven't tried it yet;-)  But, I'm going to, just to see what effect it has.

 

 

I cant believe no body knew about this technique before, its as old as old can be. Positioning its everything, if you talk to the dog while he is showing his back at you then he is more likely not to listen. If you get between the door and the dog, facing him then he will realize that you are actually talking to him. The fixation to the thing outside sometimes its too strong to hear you if you talk behind him, once he sees that your eyes are directed to him then its a different story.

I tried this many times, always work. This past Saturday a friend actually asked me about it, i was at his house. I told him that i was going to knock at the door and what he should do. Once he opened the door for me the dog was 10 feet away from the door very quiet

Something that certain person on TV would refer as "claiming the door"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDvjZOKpbcM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPpIOUCDdUw

 

Just to clarify, the technique that I mentioned is not so much "claiming the door" from the dog as it is communicating that you are in charge of defense so the dog doesn't have to be.  Turid suggests that placing yourself between the door and the dog, while facing away from the dog, is reassuring to the dog in the sense that you are telling him there is nothing to fear.  It's the act of placing yourself there, facing the threat, that supposedly makes the difference, and it's in response to a warning bark (we know that dogs bark for different reasons, and this is just one of them).

Turid also uses an approach, with the person facing the dog, for excitement barking.

Just for the record, I have no objection to techniques that do not hurt the dog, no matter who uses them:-) 

spiritdogs

Turid suggests that placing yourself between the door and the dog, while facing away from the dog, is reassuring to the dog in the sense that you are telling him there is nothing to fear.  It's the act of placing yourself there, facing the threat

But facing the door its exactly what you do when you are opening it, i dont think the dog stops barking at that moment. In my opinion if you are not facing the dog he/she wont know that you want him/her to do (or stop doing) something new. The dog might even think that sure you are whilling to facing the fear first but he/she will be there to have your back and he/she better be ready.

I dont know, i dont think she would include it in her book if it didnt work ever either.

mudpuppy

I've always found that a) "checking out" any apparent cause of the noise, say looking out the window, b) saying "thanks for the alert but everything is fine that's enough", and c) then acting totally unconcerned and flat-out ignoring the dog until he's quiet (then a gentle praise word or pat) fixes these problems.

This is what I do too.  Lately, we've had the landlord's kids playing in our yard, squirrels getting ballsy and running right past the door, even some loose or stray dogs marking all over our yard and coming ON my porch and lunging at the door.  Each of these alerts all three of my dogs.  How loud, long, and serious they bark depends (if the neighbor's dog is ON the porch, all four dogs are barking, play bowing, and lunging at the door, but if a squirrel runs by they will wuff a few times and that's that).  If I know someone is coming over, I try to be at the door first.  My dogs are all friendly and their bark is more out of excitement than aggression, but not all of my friends and family love dogs, so I say "who's coming?" to alert them to the door rather than them being awaken from sleep to someone stepping into the house.  If they alert to something I haven't anticipated, I allow a bark or two and then say "That's enough THANK YOU!"  If they keep it up I get up and shut the curtain and walk away totally unconcerned, end of story.

Kate, I got Kenya when she was 3.5 yrs and she never ever barked once for a long time.  It wasn't until we got Coke, and then months later Coke began alerting that Kenya also started alerting.  So, like your experience, neither of my dogs cared at all until they were adults.  

 Sigh.  :: I :: HEART :: MY :: LOVELY :: NON-BARKY :: DOGS ::

Kate - any success with the Rugaas technique?

In addition to redirecting/correcting, I've had good experiences with "modeling" a calm, positive attitude/behavior. When Ixa was fence guarding, I spent some time with her at the fence modeling kind, friendly behavior towards passersby, and said to her in a calm and friendly voice, things like, "nice girl, friendly neighbors." She became much calmer and less barky. (Note: this did not diminish her role in guarding the property, it simply made her more judicious.)

We've recently moved to a new house with no front yard/fence, but front windows, instead, where she began barking at some passersby on the sidewalk. I did the same thing with her, spending a little time at the window modeling friendly attitude and it's worked like a charm.

 

 ^ Where have you been and what happened to your finger?  ouch!

sorry....topic....

Just a note on the body language involved here.  When I'm observing the "pack" here, as well as the guarding team outside, the "in charge" dog does not move - neither towards the danger, nor to increase visibility, nor to "claim" any space, nor to "claim" the guarded resource.  The dog they are all getting their signal from, in fact, makes the least noise usually - she's often relatively quietly watching and assessing the intrusion or novelty that is causing the alert. 

With all due respect to Rugaas, I gather from this that dogs really don't key off body language in this context, much.  Which makes sense because guarding/alerting behavior in the feral/wild/working context, often happens over a distance.

 Just for the record, I do not panic when he does this, I agree with the school of thought that me panicking justifies his behaviour in his mind. 

I'm actually trying a sort of combination of techniques/theories that have been listed here.  I'm not speaking to him during the barking, not issuing any commands until after he stops since I believe that in that moment he's not hearing me anyway.   Going to check out the "threat" has also not worked since this started (and before this started it wasn't necessary) so that's out.

Right now I am creating "artificial" disturbances outside at times when I am already between him and the "threat".  DH went out to pick up milk yesterday evening so I pottered around near the door sorting through mail, putting my gloves away etc - things that Ben will ordinarily see me do, nothing unusual.  I'd asked DH to knock before he came back inside, and when that happened I turned my back to Ben, put ONE palm towards him and with the other hand kept doing what I was doing.  This actually seemed to surprise him enough that he stopped barking.  At that point I told him to "hush" at the volume at which I normally speak to him.  Speaking louder than usual I think has the potential to set him off again.  Then I sent him to his bed and told him to stay there while I let DH in, which he did, and that earned him a serious amount of treats LOL.

Not long afterwards I heard my neighbour come home, so I went out the back door (again didn't want to give Ben the idea that I was rushing outside to check out any threat) and went around the side of my house to the front and spoke to her, with DH doing the same thing I'd been doing when he went out.  That worked again. 

For the rest of the evening Ben was decidedly less barky than he has been recently.  DH and I curled up to watch a movie and I rewarded Ben for every single time there was a noise outside (audible to me) that he didn't bark at.  The few times he did bark, a "hush" and then a "go to bed" earned him a game of tug.  I was up until about 10:30 and his last bark before that was at about 8:30 - a new record I think LOL.   These modified techniques DO seem to be working to get him out of "blind panic mode", and the fact that I could again get him to stop without being between him and the door is heartening.  Lots of work to do, I know, particularly with strange people like pizza delivery guys knocking on the door, but it's promising.

Thanks so much for the help, everyone.  I really do think something traumatised him to cause this, it was beyond alerting and I could feel the panic radiating off him, but I think now we're on the road to fixing it.  

Benedict

DH and I curled up to watch a movie and I rewarded Ben for every single time there was a noise outside (audible to me) that he didn't bark at. 

If the noise is audible to you, it is audible to the dog, who's hearing extends beyond ours. He was offering the non-barky sit here and see what mum has behavior in order to see what mum had. I'm glad you figured out something.

 Yep I know, Ron....LOL but I can't reward him for not barking at noises I don't know are there - hence why I specified. :)

I have rewarded Shadow for doing nothing but being calm in public. If getting excited and ramped up gains nothing and being calm, cool, and collective gets smoked brisket, for Shadow, there's usually no question. Brisket it is. I really am fortunate to have such an easy reward system to work with and a dog who appreciates it.

I know that not every dog I may ever have will all be the same but we have a good place to start from, IMO.

 Ben's almost too heavily food motivated, to the extent that giving him too many treats in a short space of time causes real issues that in themselves take a lot of time to undo, so in his case they have to be used really judiciously and at this point in his life, only for major successes.  Treating him at frequent intervals just for being calm would actually be detrimental to what I would be trying to achieve, he'd get wound up.  The other things he finds rewarding, like fuss and tug games are things I do with him frequently throughout the day anyway, so they wouldn't have much more of an effect on this behaviour than they already do, I don't think.

Gosh I make him sound like a monster, don't I?  He really is a brilliant dog and I love him to bits, it's just this one very frustrating thing. 

He's just prepping you for your Maremma baby.    I expect in a few months to hear from you, "wow, that wasnt so bad after all - what was I worried about?"