Breed disposition to female aggression

A well socialized dog regardless of the breed or sex will be able to get along with other dogs, cats, rabbits, etc. Your boxer peeing everywhere was only matter of better housebraking training

The boxer we rescued didn't even get fed let alone have anyone worry over teaching him pee manners. It was very sad, but he has a good home now. I had a feeling what he would be like, he wasn't even fixed, but there was no way to just leave him in the shape he was in. How can you resist that face anyway? Julie

Your first response, was dead on target.  When a breed profile mentions dog agression they are rarely talking about dogs they are raised with. They are mostly refering to causual meetings or drop over dogs.   They some thimes are talking about dogs who are basically better as solitary animals when away from the home.  We had close friend's with a very well bred Mastiff . at our RVs he was reasonably well behaved, at home  only mildly protective. But taking him into the rings was a nightmare. He was 160 pounds of "I'm the Boss" . A bug part of this was caused by the constant babying and coaxing. They are always telling him "It's alright, " etc  it was NOT alright when he dragged his mom forty feet on her stomach clumsily loping after another dog.  It was not alright when he would have to be kept with his eyes firmly on the owners or risk him picking a fight. They quit showing him a few points shy of his championship because they finally relaized what a jerk he had grown into. They have had many since and finally learned to forbid the poofing and posturing that was so cute when the first guy was a pup.

Simple lack of correct socialization is the biggest owner error.  For what ever reason they are afraid they set a pattern and the dog falls right into it as if it was a written script. Puppies need to be around the world.  Kids, Males, Females, Dogs , Cats  you name it... if not you can expect a reaction of some kind when they meet them for the first time. When you are lucky it is a simply  "wow would you look at that ??!!" reaction... when you aren't lucky the encounter is scary , dangerous or punitive. That do will never accept easily the new life form again.  I speant 5 months teaching a RR who had lines VERY similar to my own that kids are pretty cool things to hang out with. Why? between 3 and 5 weeks it had it's tail broken in two places by a visiting teen left unsupervised with the litter of puppies. The kid may never have even known they hurt the pup, but strangers and young people  were persona non grata in his world.  We took away his food bowl for the first month and he only ate from the hands of kids and strangers.  To this day he still would prefer to pass on strangers but he no longer growls, threatens or tries to hide from them.

I run a large pack and often have visitors to add to the mix. We never, I repeat NEVER allow them unsupervised play.  I also do not put injured, ill or animals in season in the play group. Common sense tells us that it takes very little to change the dynamics.  I do not feed them as a group either. Ridgebacks do not do well when their food buttons are pushed.  I find in my breed we can bring puppies in any time and they are welcomed with happy faces. There will be some smacking them around but not in a harsh way, just a "hey Punk don't get any ideas" way.

Girls are not easier than boys. I do prefer them but then we raised 5 daughters and had both Moms in law living with us. Hormones were just a simple thing for me to process.

Get rid of the alpha notion. It is not being bigger or having a harder bite it is about being being smarter than the dogs...... Good luck in your search.

Bonita of Bwana

Male dogs are not hard to train not to mark indoors.  I have two males at the moment. One I have had since he was twelve weeks and he has never marked indoors, ever, and he is nine years old.  My other male is almost 3 years old, we think, he was not housetrained when we adopted him but we were extremely careful and he has never urinated indoors or pooped for that matter.  I also had two females of a similar age for many years and they never had any sort of aggression toward each other or visiting females,of which there have been many.  They were very well socialized as puppies and came from dogs with good temperments.  Lots of dog problems are more about early training and less about generalities concerning gender or breed, IMO.

I agree with Bonita's post. And drop the whole alpha thing if you are thinking of domination training. I've seen a guy get carved up, from a little dog to a 80 lb Malamute, trying to show who's alpha. True alpha or leader controls the resources.

Your dogs just need a stable pattern that doesn't change. If things are good when a certain dog enters first, keep it that way. Management is not a bad thing. Whether it's management or training, it will take work and adhering to the program, always. For example, even though my dog was raised around kittens and a Jack Russell Terrier, he could still chase the cat and at times, plays too rough. So, I trained "off" which means to disengage from whatever, chase, jumping on people, poking into something. Anyway, that meant rewarding him. Even if I had to get off my rump and go get something.

Same with management. If the dogs are cool with a particular pecking order, keep that order.

As for marking pre and post neuter, I don't know of others' experience but Shadow only peed one time inside a place, pre-neuter. At a friend's house, where DW had been playing with the JRT, Shadow walked up behind her and peed on her leg, to mark his human. That earned him a time out on the patio, away from the "Fun." And he has never peed in our house. And after neuter, he quit humping. So, don't let the worries about marking keep you from getting a male dog.

Males can be trained not to mark. Toy males are harder than larger dogs, but it's just a matter of remembering that for them, a single room is a whole huge world and the rest of the house may seem very "outside" by comparison. But I think you were looking at larger dogs anyway. Dog-on-dog aggression doesn't run by breeds, though there can be dogs who are from lines with it bred in (bully breeds, terriers), or with reactivity bred in (herding breeds, sighthounds, bird dogs, protection breeds). Peace within a household comes from training everyone to respect your perogative to make the decisions. A dog that is constantly chewing on a housemate is doing so first and foremost because he or she feels there's a lack of direction. That doesn't mean domination - such dogs generally just need to be needed in some way. And I've seen it in males, females, and it's entirely random, apparently, what trips such dogs out. And honestly it doesn't matter. If you follow a consistent routine and make sure any new dog feels secure in their place in the household as an important partner, you can usually incorporate male, female, puppy, adult - just about any dog, given enough time, effort, and patience.

Ok, I'll try to hit on everything in one post. As for the marking, I'm not talking baout in the house, but outside on trees bushes flowers tires, etc. I have had pretty good success with housetraining although I never tried with an older dog, but I have heard it is exactly the same. We always also neuter/spay immediately as soon as we can. I am not a fan of backyard breeding for whatever reason, especially the oops reason.

I may be using the alpha term and who's in charge thing interchangibly, but it seems that in dealing with the horses or with dogs, someone has to be in charge and it will either be you or the animal. Maybe that is not exactly the alpha concept. But someone will make the decisions. if there is a difference here, even if it is subtle, I would love to get a better understanding of it. I am really trying to learn how to have a better relationship with my dogs and how well I do that will have a lot to do with my choices of what I can bring in to live in this group, so I really want to make sure I am understanding concepts correctly.

I have more to say, but hubbie says we have to run to Lowe's to get something to change the hot water heater out, so gotta run for now. be back as soon as I can, but I have clients later and a class so I apologize if it is tomorrow before I can finish this. Julie

 

Ok, ready for my client, so I have a small piece of time. You all give me a lot of hope that with a bit of work, and some knowledge that I can overcome the unrest that sometimes happens between my dogs, and may be able to incorporate an adult in at some future time if I find a rescue I like. I had been under the impression that no matter what kind of dog parent you are, sometimes there are going to be females that just do not get along. I have seen so many posts where people have just that problem, and my boxer local rescue will not adopt a female into a home with a female dog already there because that breed tends towards female aggression. And I went to the breed specific forum and they caution that putting two together is a crap shoot.

I am just trying to get the straight info on whether it is just dog skill, or skill and the individual dog that can make it happen. And I don't mean that one odd dog who hates all other dogs, but the norm in a dog aggressive breed.

Right now our two dogs still live in the basement and outside. Since Kota died, I have been bringing them in for periods of time and trying to get them used to being inside again. They have some time in by them selves, and some time in with each other. The oldest one pretty much just sleeps, but Bear who is the rescue who is a little "strange" will have all kinds of experiences. Sometimes she can take it for awhile, other times she hears a noise or whatever and she is begging to go back out. SInce I have been bringing her in, she has developed an obsession with digging up moles in a certain place in the backyard. I don't know if it is just coincidence, or if I have messed up her routine and that is how she is dealing with the stress. Whichever, it looks like a mine field back there. Anyway, when Scarlett is gone, i want bear to live inside. I don't want her outside alone, nor do I ever want another outside dog. SO I want her to be able to comfortably live inside either by herself or with whatever dog I end up getting, puppy or adult.

I am tired of living around the dogs quirks. I want to begin some more serious obedience training and really get them into being better members of the family, and me a better and more knowledgable dog mom.. And address the problems we have with them, instead of, like I said, living around them.

I think really learning the best way to handle all these situations will help me in helping the shelter dogs become more adoptable. How satisfying would it be to help a shelter dog with a particular problem overcome it and find a nice home. But then how satisfying would it be to have peace and harmony in my own dog family and not have to put so much worry into wanting another dog. Well, I bette go for now. thanks you to everyone for putting in your thoughts here. Julie

espencer

A well socialized dog regardless of the breed or sex will be able to get along with other dogs, cats, rabbits, etc. Your boxer peeing everywhere was only matter of better housebraking training

 

Not true.  Some dogs will be dog aggressive when they reach social maturity even if you socialize the crap out of them.  Genetics play a part, too, in whether this happens.  Also, some dogs will take a dislike to a particular dog or even a particular breed/type.  And, still others will play the status game - this can even happen with well socialized litter mates that decide to fight over status once they grow up.  Females can live together peacefully as pups, then want to kill one another as adults.  It can be hard to keep same sex dogs.  Experience teaches us that most dogs can successfully live with others, but there are some that aren't likely to do it.  It can be hard to keep two male Bullmastiffs together, and it can be hard to keep two female Kerry Blues together - that isn't always the case, but it happens enough that people need to take note that they may have problems.  

spiritdogs

Some dogs will be dog aggressive when they reach social maturity even if you socialize the crap out of them.  Genetics play a part, too, in whether this happens.  Also, some dogs will take a dislike to a particular dog or even a particular breed/type.  And, still others will play the status game - this can even happen with well socialized litter mates that decide to fight over status once they grow up.  Females can live together peacefully as pups, then want to kill one another as adults.  It can be hard to keep same sex dogs.  Experience teaches us that most dogs can successfully live with others, but there are some that aren't likely to do it.  It can be hard to keep two male Bullmastiffs together, and it can be hard to keep two female Kerry Blues together - that isn't always the case, but it happens enough that people need to take note that they may have problems.  

 

Not true, i know people (including a couple members of this forum) who own female siblings who get along great (among may other examples of dogs living together happily regardless of age, breed or sex). Of course they use techniques you dont agree with but that does not mean they are wrong and actually allow them to have a pretty balanced pack. Since you dont practice those techniques then is understandable that you think its not possible

I had been under the impression that no matter what kind of dog parent you are, sometimes there are going to be females that just do not get along

I would say a resounding yes. Once females start to fight seriously your only options are to keep them separated forever or rehome one, or someday you'll have a tragic vet visit. But female-female serious aggression can often be avoided by following simple rules. Never get two females who are very close to the same age- stagger by five years. Don't leave resources lying around that might trigger a squabble (i.e. toys, chews). Feed in crates or separate rooms. Practice NILIF, and do obedience training.

espencer

spiritdogs

Some dogs will be dog aggressive when they reach social maturity even if you socialize the crap out of them.  Genetics play a part, too, in whether this happens.  Also, some dogs will take a dislike to a particular dog or even a particular breed/type.  And, still others will play the status game - this can even happen with well socialized litter mates that decide to fight over status once they grow up.  Females can live together peacefully as pups, then want to kill one another as adults.  It can be hard to keep same sex dogs.  Experience teaches us that most dogs can successfully live with others, but there are some that aren't likely to do it.  It can be hard to keep two male Bullmastiffs together, and it can be hard to keep two female Kerry Blues together - that isn't always the case, but it happens enough that people need to take note that they may have problems.  

 

Not true, i know people (including a couple members of this forum) who own female siblings who get along great (among may other examples of dogs living together happily regardless of age, breed or sex). Of course they use techniques you dont agree with but that does not mean they are wrong and actually allow them to have a pretty balanced pack. Since you dont practice those techniques then is understandable that you think its not possible

*EDITED baiting*  If I thought that female dogs could never get along, would I have three females here in my own home?  The average pet owner *edited rude*, like me, who might be able to manage if the dogs detest one another.  Until you can tell me that you have lived with two female dogs that detest one another to the point of each wanting the other dog dead, and successfully rehabilitated them *edited rude* then please don't act as though this A. doesn't happen, or B. is easy to deal with.  Sure, female siblings CAN get along great, but when they don't, novices beware.

espencer

spiritdogs

Some dogs will be dog aggressive when they reach social maturity even if you socialize the crap out of them.  Genetics play a part, too, in whether this happens.  Also, some dogs will take a dislike to a particular dog or even a particular breed/type.  And, still others will play the status game - this can even happen with well socialized litter mates that decide to fight over status once they grow up.  Females can live together peacefully as pups, then want to kill one another as adults.  It can be hard to keep same sex dogs.  Experience teaches us that most dogs can successfully live with others, but there are some that aren't likely to do it.  It can be hard to keep two male Bullmastiffs together, and it can be hard to keep two female Kerry Blues together - that isn't always the case, but it happens enough that people need to take note that they may have problems.  

 

Not true, i know people (including a couple members of this forum) who own female siblings who get along great (among may other examples of dogs living together happily regardless of age, breed or sex). Of course they use techniques you dont agree with but that does not mean they are wrong and actually allow them to have a pretty balanced pack. Since you dont practice those techniques then is understandable that you think its not possible

 

I know lots of people who have multiple females - even female siblings - that get along great, techniques used to maintain a "balanced pack" notwithstanding.  But that does not negate the fact that some females exist who do not get along.  It is a good idea to be aware of this fact when looking at breeds to integrate into your household that already includes female dogs.

Sometimes females don't get on regardless of the technique tried.   Owning such dogs does not make a person a failure, nor does it make the dogs defective. 

Chuffy

Sometimes females don't get on regardless of the technique tried.   Owning such dogs does not make a person a failure, nor does it make the dogs defective. 

 

Totally.  Since we're all about the "I know people...", I know someone who has been breeding, training, exhibiting, and competing with her breed for over 30 years and has a mother and daughter who just don't get along.  Both are intact.  Both are great dogs, the mother a winner of her working class at a world show, rock solid temperaments, get on well with other dogs and people just not each other.  This person has had multiple intact bitches for years and years.  This pair just need to stay out of each others' space.