FED UP with leash aggression

I think the major thing that I got from Scaredy Dog, is the understanding that reactive dogs are under heavy duty stress.  And it is cyclic.  Stress feeds the reactivity, which feeds the stress, which feeds the reactivity, which feeds the stress..etc. etc.

Until the dog ends up a ticking time bomb.

At all times, I have been keeping mine from overstimulation.  Be it in the house, in the yard, in the truck, on the leash.

I monitor his stimulating times and offset that with alone/quiet times.  So he can regroup.

If he has an hour long walk, he then gets an hour of total peace and quiet.

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada

This is exactly what is taught in "Feisty Fido" and in "Scaredy Dog", and is the accepted protocol for dealing with leash aggression or leash reactivity.

Scaredy Dog is the book that Anne originally recommended to me, and I found it so helpful. Even my boyfriend, who believes I "over-think and research to death" all dog related things, flipped through the book and found some interesting points that helped win him over to my side.

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

We're probably going to do the next level obedience class this spring, hopefully that will help. I try to take him into petstores for a little more dog to dog socialization, and he usually does very well. Most people don't like him near their dogs ( i guess they're afraid)  i guess the petstore is a neutral ground for him, and he's only aggressive at dogs that bark while in there.

Hi RGS

Just wanted to add my two cents in here. Have you actually tried working with a behaviorist? It sounds a lot like your dog doesn't understand that you are the *leader* he should listen too. A *good* behaviorist can help you with this because they understand that  behavior (manners) and obedience  (skills ) are two very different things. Your problems don't sound like a "equipment" problem, but more of a,  I don't understand my dog problem. You may want to check out a book called  Cesar's  Way, or If Dogs Could Talk. There's a few more that escape my mind at the moment, but educating yourself on how dogs learn and think (which is very different from humans) will help you a great deal.

As far as pet stores or any place that may have other dogs around, that's a bad place to deal with these issues. Dogs that have aggressive issues shouldn't meet other dogs,  face to face. Try getting a freind with a dog to walk with you, dogs on opposite sides. Over time, add more dogs, when you dog no longer seams to care, try having different ones walk closer to him. The whole time his job is to focuss on *the walk*. Good luck.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog
 Dogs that have aggressive issues shouldn't meet other dogs,  face to face. Try getting a freind with a dog to walk with you, dogs on opposite sides. Over time, add more dogs, when you dog no longer seams to care, try having different ones walk closer to him. The whole time his job is to focuss on *the walk*. Good luck.

 
This parallel walking exercise is very helpful. I use this a lot with dogs who have dog and/or leash aggression issues.
 
When dogs move together in the same direction, it is far less confrontational and the dogs do not make direct eye contact. Moving together in the same direction also helps communicate "we have joined up and are working together". The humans have made this decision as the leaders.
 
A friend with a calm dog who is willing to walk with you would be a big help.
 
You can check our CM Discussions area in the Training Forum for a little more info in the "Leadership Walk" thread.
 
I also recommend the book Cesar's Way to help you understand things a little better from the dog's point of view.
 
Good luck to you.

He does very well with friend's dogs. He's actually very well behaved in all situations as long as there are no other dogs (strange dogs).

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

He does very well with friend's dogs. He's actually very well behaved in all situations as long as there are no other dogs (strange dogs).

Do you not know people who's dogs he has not met?

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

We're probably going to do the next level obedience class this spring, hopefully that will help. I try to take him into petstores for a little more dog to dog socialization, and he usually does very well. Most people don't like him near their dogs ( i guess they're afraid)  i guess the petstore is a neutral ground for him, and he's only aggressive at dogs that bark while in there.

Hi RGS

Just wanted to add my two cents in here. Have you actually tried working with a behaviorist? It sounds a lot like your dog doesn't understand that you are the *leader* he should listen too. A *good* behaviorist can help you with this because they understand that  behavior (manners) and obedience  (skills ) are two very different things. Your problems don't sound like a "equipment" problem, but more of a,  I don't understand my dog problem. You may want to check out a book called  Cesar's  Way, or If Dogs Could Talk. There's a few more that escape my mind at the moment, but educating yourself on how dogs learn and think (which is very different from humans) will help you a great deal.

As far as pet stores or any place that may have other dogs around, that's a bad place to deal with these issues. Dogs that have aggressive issues shouldn't meet other dogs,  face to face. Try getting a freind with a dog to walk with you, dogs on opposite sides. Over time, add more dogs, when you dog no longer seams to care, try having different ones walk closer to him. The whole time his job is to focuss on *the walk*. Good luck.

No one said this was an equipment problem, but the Gentle Leader is an aid to the handler in keeping the dog's attention focused on the handler, and is usually what behaviorists recommend when working with leash reactivity.  Patricia McConnell, who wrote "Feisty Fido" is a PhD level behaviorist, and widely regarded as a "good" one. []
Reactivity is not an obedience issue - some very obedient dogs are reactive and cannot concentrate on the task at hand when a trigger stimulus is too close.  As far as leadership is concerned, this is a problem that can be exacerbated by handler nervousness that the dog perceives at the other end of the leash, but a dog that is generally convinced of its human's status at home can still act in a reactive way outdoors or in a situation when the human is behaving nervously (even if it's just to hold your breath) or aggressively (even if it's just a "leash pop").
Behaviorists sometimes use "abandonment training" for this issue, too.  Trish King has a tape on which she demonstrates that technique, but I have forgotten the title - it may be "Training Difficult Dogs"  Tape I or II, not sure.

If he is not aggressive when off leash, then my guess is that he is less dominant than fearful or simply reactive or frustrated.

 
This is what we have here.  Kato is totally fine off lead with other dogs of both sexes.  He barks, but he is not aggressive.  He will bark, then sniff and do the dog play thing.  That's it.  I have never seen him "aggressive" around dogs, but that reactivity issue is what we have. 
 
I try to avoid it as much as possible as not to stress him out.  At the vet, they have a side entrance we come in and go straight into an exam room.  No waiting room drama.  When he hears other dogs barking, he perks up but remains calm per se.  No barking or going nuts.  I bring treats and reward this quiet behavior as I know he would like to see the offending dog.  He can focus on me and relax, but he's stressed at the vet anyway.  He doesn't need anymore.
 
He is a work in progress......  

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs


No one said this was an equipment problem, but the Gentle Leader is an aid to the handler in keeping the dog's attention focused on the handler, and is usually what behaviorists recommend when working with leash reactivity.  Patricia McConnell, who wrote "Feisty Fido" is a PhD level behaviorist, and widely regarded as a "good" one. []
Reactivity is not an obedience issue - some very obedient dogs are reactive and cannot concentrate on the task at hand when a trigger stimulus is too close.  As far as leadership is concerned, this is a problem that can be exacerbated by handler nervousness that the dog perceives at the other end of the leash, but a dog that is generally convinced of its human's status at home can still act in a reactive way outdoors or in a situation when the human is behaving nervously (even if it's just to hold your breath) or aggressively (even if it's just a "leash pop").
Behaviorists sometimes use "abandonment training" for this issue, too.  Trish King has a tape on which she demonstrates that technique, but I have forgotten the title - it may be "Training Difficult Dogs"  Tape I or II, not sure.

I never said anyone said it was, I simply made an observation. One I'll stand by, thank you. and I'm not impressed by someone because they're a PhD Behaviorist, (I seen the damage some of them have done first hand) I'm impressed by what someone actually knows and can do.  That's just me.

Read "Stress Puppy" in this.  It is pretty interesting. It is an exerpt from Scaredy Dog.

[linkhttp://www.greatcompanions.info/images/CanineReactivitySamplePages.pdf]http://www.greatcompanions.info/images/CanineReactivitySamplePages.pdf[/link]

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

He does very well with friend's dogs. He's actually very well behaved in all situations as long as there are no other dogs (strange dogs).

ORIGINAL: JM

Read "Stress Puppy" in this.  It is pretty interesting. It is an exerpt from Scaredy Dog.

[linkhttp://www.greatcompanions.info/images/CanineReactivitySamplePages.pdf]http://www.greatcompanions.info/images/CanineReactivitySamplePages.pdf[/link]

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

He does very well with friend's dogs. He's actually very well behaved in all situations as long as there are no other dogs (strange dogs).

A dog that does well with familiar dogs and not with others is often a dog that played with other puppies, but then went on to socialize only with familiat dogs.  I find it to be very common among dogs who attend traditional obedience classes, which do have playtime for puppies, but stop having playtime in the intermediate and advanced classes.  When we socialize puppies at our center, we suggest the owners keep coming to classes for several sessions, and we suggest they come to weekly play groups until the dogs are adults, so long as they get along in the group.  This helps insure that you end up with a dog that can go to shows, the park, the beach, and other venues comfortably.  People often make the mistake of isolating the dog with a few friends, and they assume that Fido is great "with other dogs" because he plays with those dogs.  They are often surprised to find that Fido has decided to include ONLY the familiar dogs in his "pack", but those other dogs he meets are intruders!

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs


No one said this was an equipment problem, but the Gentle Leader is an aid to the handler in keeping the dog's attention focused on the handler, and is usually what behaviorists recommend when working with leash reactivity.  Patricia McConnell, who wrote "Feisty Fido" is a PhD level behaviorist, and widely regarded as a "good" one. []
Reactivity is not an obedience issue - some very obedient dogs are reactive and cannot concentrate on the task at hand when a trigger stimulus is too close.  As far as leadership is concerned, this is a problem that can be exacerbated by handler nervousness that the dog perceives at the other end of the leash, but a dog that is generally convinced of its human's status at home can still act in a reactive way outdoors or in a situation when the human is behaving nervously (even if it's just to hold your breath) or aggressively (even if it's just a "leash pop").
Behaviorists sometimes use "abandonment training" for this issue, too.  Trish King has a tape on which she demonstrates that technique, but I have forgotten the title - it may be "Training Difficult Dogs"  Tape I or II, not sure.

I never said anyone said it was, I simply made an observation. One I'll stand by, thank you. and I'm not impressed by someone because they're a PhD Behaviorist, (I seen the damage some of them have done first hand) I'm impressed by what someone actually knows and can do.  That's just me.

Well, having seen Tricia McConnell in action, I'm satisfied that she does know how to deal with a reactive dog.  As to others, I judge them individually, too, and I respect education, be it formal or otherwise. 

Kaiser has played with all most all of my friend's dogs...i'd say the number is around 20. The only dog he had problems with and couldn't get over was with an unaltered male pit bull. When Kaiser is off lead, he will act dominant at first...hair bristled, tail up, stiff posture...but if the other dog doesn't act aggressively and obviously wants to play, then we have no problem. He also only exhibits this behavior with larger dogs. we have never had a problem with small dogs. And i agree, Kaiser is one of the best house dogs i have ever been around, but when i get him out around other dogs, he is a different dog. The only weird thing he does around humans is stare at them and kick the grass up behind him...but he's affectionate with complete strangers. I'm watching feisty fido on ebay, i think it ends tomorrow, i'm excited!

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

A dog that does well with familiar dogs and not with others is often a dog that played with other puppies, but then went on to socialize only with familiat dogs.  I find it to be very common among dogs who attend traditional obedience classes, which do have playtime for puppies, but stop having playtime in the intermediate and advanced classes.  When we socialize puppies at our center, we suggest the owners keep coming to classes for several sessions, and we suggest they come to weekly play groups until the dogs are s, so long as they get along in the group.  This helps insure that you end up with a dog that can go to shows, the park, the beach, and other venues comfortably.  People often make the mistake of isolating the dog with a few friends, and they assume that Fido is great "with other dogs" because he plays with those dogs.  They are often surprised to find that Fido has decided to include ONLY the familiar dogs in his "pack", but those other dogs he meets are intruders!

And here I thought I was the only one that saw that, by observing dogs at the local dog park.  What a great observation.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs


Well, having seen Tricia McConnell in action, I'm satisfied that she does know how to deal with a reactive dog.  As to others, I judge them individually, too, and I respect education, be it formal or otherwise. 

I'm curious, just what do you consider a "reactive" dog?

Have "you" personally seen her approach and deal with a pit, rottie, cmd, gsd, cc, that were beyond puppy hood and well into extreme aggression. Please be honest here, as I am well informed of the subject at hand.

Notice I asked if the owner knew people with dogs their dog "didn't" know. Or was that simply ignored. One must take little steps before big ones.