Last Chance and I Gave Up.

I did buy him with expectation. Not going to lie. A Poodle matched everything I wanted; likes water, intelligent, has lots of hair, nice size (A Mini), small weight, goofy. I had plans with him, and they all fell through (except the grooming) and that's my fault for "expecting" him to be the "perfect" dog. I do understand that part.

And I know training is what I want to do, I ENJOY the mess outta it. When I can do it right, I love it. But I didn't grow up in a dog family, so all I am working off of is books and the internet and some TV. Not much haha. I already have a trainer picked out, but I have to go to them D: No car or license either. And my parents don't believe in "wasting" that much money, so they won't take me. I coulda had Bark Busters come out, but for $400, oh goodness no. And they want me to growl at Diesel. Haha, Milan's ways don't work on my dog.

And I do know I need a trainer more than anything. But until next summer, all I have is myself and the internet and TVs and books and Diesel. If I could've gone to the trainers, trust me, I wouldn't have wasted anyone's time with this.

I have a Petco and Petsmart 5 miles away at the furthest point, I should start spending time there watching the trainers, although I doubt they are very skilled, seeing training firsthand might help me.

Krissim Klaw

If the thought about working with unstable dogs repels you, than you might want to consider a different profession.  People rarely bring in perfect, stable dogs to dog trainers.  It is the poorly socialized, overzealous, reactive, dogs and their confused, inexperienced owners that often come bumbling in desperate for help and answers.  Though they might be the hardest to instruct, they are also the ones who need it the most.

If you want to believe in Karma, than I think Karma has sent you a very big gift in a dog that can teach you the true heart in becoming a dog trainer.

That's how I taught Diesel some basic manners, using training as you go. I like those words, haha. Sounds much better than my jumbled mess of a phrase.

I always thought Diesel and I trusted each other, but I guess from an outside opinion, I can see how someone would think that. I'm thinking just starting way over may be good. You know, like when you bring a puppy home..

I'm learning more here than more than any book I've ever read. Thanks so much everyone. ♥ ♥ I'm feeling better and have some new things to try and I need to work on my "energy levels", as Millan would put it.

what treats do you use for training? and do you use them for non training purpose? what is your body posture in a training session as opposed to during normal every day things? your dog is dreading the thought of a "session" because it creates expectations and that causes him anxiety! so you do stuff as casual as possible. but i think it is the repetition part, the rinse and repeat part that he picks up on the most as a situation being a training session. you see what i mean? as soon as you do the same thing over and over, he shuts down, cause in his head its "oh no this is a SESSION!!!! WHAA!!!" get me?

so what you do is you make sessions less like sessions. forget the treats for a bit even. take him in the yard. do one come, then reward with a short play session (5-10 minutes). then do one sit (see what i'm doing, you're doing a DIFFERENT command now! so it couldnt possibly be a SESSION!!!) reward with praise and some more play. mix up the commands...

do it only a few times! and the whole "non-session" maybe only once or twice a day. dont push it. dont continue on and on. when you said you tend to keep on going, it really told me a lot about the problem. he knows that! he can feel that! its part of what freaks him out about sessions. if you have a hard time, go into your "non-sessions" with a plan (for instance ok, today only one come and one down THAT"S IT!)

every time you push on long enough for diesel to shut down, you make the situation worse. next time he is even more anxious! ideally you should finish up with him being all happy and relaxed! of course once he shuts down, nothing will make him relaxed but stopping, so that is why you want to avoid that in the first place.

for treats, you should maybe also make it a habit of keeping them with you most of the time, so he doesnt associate them with the dreaded sessions! otherwise you could just be ok training with praise only (i've done it, and for a soft, focused dog, it works incredibly well!) ...

good luck!

You're getting TONS of good mentoring here and lots and lots of good ideas.  Just for once in my life *grin* I'm going to attempt to be brief.

Basically -- to add to what Krissim Klaw said above -- you really just have to re-define the words "dog training".

You look at *this* particular dog.  This ONE dog who is your entire world at that moment and you do what needs to be done to train **that** dog at that time.  If it's had a difficult background (genetics, abuse, species specific issues, etc.) you always have to evaluate what to do with **this** one particular four-foot to successfully deal with it. 

The technique that works on Joe Rover, large-black-hunting-dog and the ones that work on Poochie-brown-dog-cur-never-lived-inside-before and then there is Dinky-white-purebred-from-a-puppymill/puppystore-ain't-I-cute -- that's THREE different dogs, three different ways, but maybe a lot of the same techiniques used.

But you have to learn to look at *this* dog that's in front of you right now, learn to read it's needs, fears, and what motivates it and go from there.  Learning to read your own dog -- it's harder than anyone might think. 

Part of the problem (which is also part of the beauty of what you're learning) is that you have a dog who is incredibly intelligent breed-wise.  A dog who will "do" what it knows is expected to the extent that it can but it will still give you signals that it's nervous or scared.  So by the time you learn to read THIS dog you will honestly have learned a whole lot. 

Good luck - it's great to see someone teachable who is searching for what they NEED to know.  It's going to be fun watching you grow!! (not meant as a criticism -- truly meant as encouragement!!)

Rene, you wanna know where I learned that method? LOL I have a Parson Russell Terrier, Emma, who is a low-drive, low desire to please dog. I have always wanted to compete in obedience trials. When I took Emma to get her CGC, I asked the evaluator about competetive obedience. The evaluator does obedience, and trains in my area, so... we started training with her. Emma falls apart under "old fashioned" training, too. She'd been kicked out of classes, for being disruptive, and she'd been denied access to a class, because of her breed.

Now? She has her CGC, her Rally Novice (RN), Rally Advanced (RA), Rally Excellent(RE) titles. She has two Rally Advanced Excellent (RAE) legs. She is trained through novice obedience (CD title), but hasn't competed for it, yet. Right now, she's on a health related break from showing.

Oh, and she also has a bite record. She was a BAD dog, when she was young. She was very underconfident, and tended to lash out. Training built confidence, in her. She's now able to be around all sorts of people and dogs, with no problems! It's amazing. I always say, if Emma can do it, anybody can. I am a novice trainer. I don't have years of experience. I do have several years of experience grooming, volunteering, and in vet clinics, so I know how to read dogs fairly well. Anyhow.... You have to build the drive, motivate the dog, make him WANT to work with you, and then stop. LOL Next time you start, he'll be antsy to work. 

I've gotta post more of Ena, soon. There are a few on here.... I don't take nearly enough!

 There are as many different ways to train a dog as there are people to teach them, multiplied by the number of dogs to be taught.

It sounds like you need to go right back to the beginning, the basics, the connection between the two of you.  I recommend Clothier's book, "If A Dog's Prayers Were Answered, Bones Would Rain From The Sky".  I can even send you a copy if you want it - pm me your postal address.

This dog is not impossible to train.  Stick at it, but go RIGHT back to square 1, RELAX and take it reeeeeal slow. 

Listen to the dog. 

Abandon "training sessions" for now.  Most dogs behave differently in a training session anyway; Diesel is not unusual.  How many people do you think have dogs that "heel" BEAUTIFULLY in training class, and then tow their owners back to the car at top speed??

Use your NILIF and everytime Diesel does something you LIKE, reinforce it.  (You might also want to attach a cue AS he is doing it.)  A reinforcer is something the dog wants at that moment.  It is probably chicken, but it doesn't have to be.  In fact, varying the rewards dramatically will give you better results.

Keep us posted and let me know if you want that book

 Those rabbit-fur covered squeaky mice they sell for cats are pretty popular, here. I thrown them, squeak them, lure with them, etc. The girls love them.

I use fried chicken (no skin) most of the time or hotdogs. And I used to use them for nontraining purposes, like 2 months back. I just finally got him on a feeding schedule, after finally talking my dad outta feeding him, so he's no way more attentive to the foods around him. As for my body posture, I think it does change during training. Normally I kinda have a very "at ease" lazy posture, and when I go into training mode, I feel more "powerful" (to give a visual) so I guess Diesel can detect that.

And yes, I do understand what you are saying about the repitition thing. I'm not gonna lie, if I were him I'd be dreading them too, haha! I guess I make it more of a chore to him (ontop of what anxiety I give him) and that makes him dislike it more?

Thanks for the great advice. :D ♥

I understand (now after seeing all these posts) where you are coming from. The books I have been getting only use "one" kind of dog. The perfect dog. The one that is willing to train and has no problems learning in 5 minutes flat. And then when I was training my aunt's dog, Peanut, he fit "their" stereotype, so I've never had any experience, and I always thought all dogs are "supposed" to be like Peanut and the one's in the book. I thought, honestly, that I must be the most unlucky person in the world, to get stuck with a dog who can't learn. Haha it's sad to hear me say that.

I'm now getting the fact I need to look at the dog for who he is (personality) and not what he is (a Poodle whom everyone made it sound like a 1 year old could train). And it is hard to actually "read" my dog. All I really know about him is his boredom, anxiety, fear, and happiness. Not enough to actually "know" my dog.

As for the smart part, I dunno. He's got a few wires missing (nontraining related). Haha. You should watch him running, he doesn't seem to mulitask well and the walls have proof of that. But no, seriously, I understand where you are coming from. That's a reason why I went after a Poodle, knowing they are intelligent.

And thanks for the luck :D And I'm excited to see how much I can learn and change within this year. I have more confidence than I ever have and more help and support than ever. Thank you. ♥

Wow! Emma has accomplished a whole lot. I doubt at that point you are a novice trainer. A novice would be someone like me, knows little to nothing and is learning. I could never get a dog to get an Rally-O title or Obedience title, I don't know enough (yet). I hope she gets well soon too. Give her a belly rub for me, haha.

As for the cat toys; I bought one of those bells on the string, to mimic the spring pole used by Pitbull owners trying to work him some. He wasn't fond of it since the bell scared him. But I bypassed the mouse toys. I might buy one and rub it on a gerbil to get the scent to fool him. Thanks for reminding me, haha, I can really use that.

Thank youl ♥

I'll PM you about the book :D

And thank you for the tips too ♥ Hearing the (almost) same thing over and over is helping drive it home to me. I need this. And yes, I am going to start over real slow and I'm going to look into some kind of breather exercises I can do, that way if I feel stressed over something with Diesel I can learn how to calm down, and maybe make me a calmer person in general.

i'm glad to see you are gaining more confidence in this!

just wanted to tell you that you should maybe try find a way to get YOUR mind off of the whole "seriousness" of training. your body posture will follow and diesel will surely pick up on that!

good luck and keep us updated!

Try the kitty toys with just a catnip fish, or a feather, on the end. My girls like to chase those around. If he likes balls, though, you can make one with a tennis ball. It's a fun game to have to chase something, that much. Both of mine are breeds that are good at lure coursing, and that's essentially what we do with the kitty toys. After they've chased for a bit, I give it to them. They LOVE it!

Also, helpingudders.com sells toys made of recycled (used!) milking machine parts. Emma is in LOVE with her udder tug! I got the pocket tug, because it's small enough to hide during training, and pull out as a big reward. I also use a small, Kong Wubba for this purpose. Ena isn't allowed to play tug, because Chinese Cresteds have very shallowly rooted teeth, but it's a huge reward for Emma. I also use it, at trials, to amp her up about working with me.

I had typed up a reply earlier and ran out of time, so I just deleted and got on with whatever. Having re-read the thread, I get a slightly different perspective. Diesel is actually very smart. His mind is actually moving faster than you think. I think of the frustration of a gifted kid in a regular class. In a few steps already 1 or 2 years ahead of classmates, without enough challenge. And, as Callie put it, requiring a tailored approach. So, good luck with communicating with your own special dog.

My dog, Shadow, was bought at a pet store and is a mixed breed. Once, I took a pic of his food bowl, where he often leaves some of the food. A full Lab usually cleans the bowl. Well, he's not full Lab and one jokingly question if he had much Lab in him, after all. Anyway, he loves working for treats that don't necessarily taste much better than his regular food but they come from the "treat container" (a cleaned out plastic coffee can). That makes them special to him. And the interaction of training. That's his way of working. And for some meat, he will audition for the Bolshoi Ballet. While he is smart, I started out training him with lure/reward and corrections. So, he often reverts to waiting to be cued. And it's okay that he would rather have me decide. That's kind of what I was wanting.

So, barring medical or genetic problems, even dogs with a dubious origin can be trained.

If you could only buy one book on training, I'd say get "The Power of Positive Training" by Pat Miller.  Step by step (not clicker, more lure/reward, but still positive) training that is going to make sense to your dog.  And, if you need to teach the dog to come, get Leslie Nelson's DVD "Really Reliable Recall". 

If your dog is anxious, consider using Sniffers 101 training treats.  They're made with herbs that relax the dog.  Keep training sessions short and end on a good note.  I don't care if I get only a couple of right responses before I quit.  The dog will remember, but you haven't scared him or stressed him by being too persistent.  Some really smart dogs benefit from this tactic, too.  They're the ones that do a behavior or two and then shut down when you ask again - it's as if they're saying "Darn it, I did that already - not going to repeat myself."  If you don't belabor the point in training, they seem to learn the cues and reliably perform when you need them to.